Slaves Asking Permission to Go AFK or Log

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May 2012

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[Xaz Elephas]

Past few months, well longer then that really, since I started playing Gor, I have at times while a slave has been present around Free's gotten the following request in game, during role-play: 'Master I need to go afk, may I have permission please' with some giving even reasons why and some of these reasons have caused me to lift a brow, for example: Master May I have permission to go afk or log because I have to pick my kids up from school. Or I have to fix my kids there dinner, or I have to go work...I need to put my kids to be or its late and I have to get to bed for work tomorrow.

Now these are ooc request and have nothing to do with role-play. I remember one girl who asked me if she could have permission to log, I forget the reason she said but I thought I would say no and see what she did. For a few moments she did not know what to do. I then Imed her and said 'Look, in rl your a grown adult, not a slave, ooc you have the rights as any human being and really to ask in an IC manner for permission to log is rather scary IMO that you feel you must get permission to do this. 


I knew or became aware of that some slaves even ooc consider themselves subs and carry this role over into real life. I try not to judge what others do as I normally go with the ... what ever floats your boat. But to seriously to have to ask in a game for permission to go take care of rl be it children, hubby, work… what ever is just kind of… out there. 

I began to wonder where the heck did this come from that a slave should ask such instead of just saying (( Look time for me to jet, see you all later))  which could just be handled IC by I need to kennel, go to my furs, pen or what ever they do to leave role-play, I mean ooc I have never seen a Free person ask permission to log and ooc we are ALL free persons…then I found it.

The reason why some slave’s do this which I am sure has been passed down from the slaves before them that they should ask permission to run off to rl… It’s some of these old slave handbooks… Here is an exact quote from one:

Leaving the room:
Again, if a Free Person is in the room, ask permission to leave. If you need to go afk (away-from-keyboard you should also ask permission. It won't be denied, the object is not to keep you online against your will, but to show respect and submission.

I can understand wanting to be respectful to your fellow role-players but… I mean… really?  Are you that deep into a fictitious role that you carry it over to real life to the point you as an adult need to ask permission to go take care of your children? Obviously this is the one that gets me the most.

Child: Mom when is dinner?

Slave role-player: *types in game* Permission please Master/Mistress to go afk to fix my kid dinner.

 This has really been asked of me by a slave in game during role-play.


In closing I want to say, please, Slaves do not ask me IC grant you permission to log, go afk while you need to take care of real life even if you put it in (). OOC you have the same rights as all role-players and to be honest and my thoughts only… this is very disturbing that you feel the need to do this.

Does anyone else find this disturbing?

[Delaynie Barbosa]

What you're kind of saying is slaves sometimes overstep their role in asking for rl permission. On the other side of that is Free who overstep theirs. How many free have told that girl that's what she had to do.  Maybe on lifestyle sims? Or maybe she's had too much roleplay with bad roleplayers? We've all encountered those who can't tell the difference between rl and roleplay. 
And I don't buy for a second that asking permission won't be denied... I've had it denied, a lot, even though my reasons are ICly in chat... "may I go to my furs, may I finish my chores," etc etc.  I find that in order not to break the scene, a simple IM saying, "hey I gotta go, will you excuse me in the RP?" is the best way to exit. Failing that, just "hear" your Master calling you from home, and excuse yourself. ;-)

[bunni Maven]

Frowns.

Now, first let me say.  I see where you are coming from.  But this is what I will add...You have to remember that there are lifestylers mixed in with roleplayers.  I am not guilty of what you listed above, however, I can understand the perplexity of why they asked and why it would have stalled even myself to be told "no" you cant tend to an OOC task.

There are a good number of BDSM folks who play in Gor.  There are also a number of players who play not -just- for roleplay.  I would never push what I do on to someone else, but I can understands both sides of it.  A good number of slaves are RL submissives.  It isn't that they necessarily are depended on a "Free" to allow them to go AFK...its more i think out of...habit, respect, and well... desire to please being the reason that they do it.

In cases of AFK or logging, the only person I would ask would be someone who claimed ownership of me AND was in an OOC relationship with me.  Sometimes what we do behind closed doors reflects in the way we not only roleplay but how we react.   In order to really understand the behavior behind what is being done, I think you would need a more in depth understanding of BDSM as well as a few other things.

What I would find disturbing isn't a slave asking for actual permission, but a slave actually NOT tending to OOC due to being told NO by the person they are asking.  That would concern me more than anything else.

[Xaz Elephas]

The gene of Gor though has nothing to do with BDSM so why as a Gorean role-player would I have to understand it?  As for Lifestylers I have run into a few of those in Role-play Gor (I tend to stay on BTB sims, Not life-styler sims, those just creep me out) and the few Lifestylers I have run into during my role-play, I walk away from. I am a role-player. I am here to role-play. I do not want what I say in role-play to be taken by some Lifestyler that what I am saying I mean irl too. 

[Linnet Foggarty]

Good points Delaynie.

I've seen many a slave player try to handle it IC "I have chores to do" or "May I kennel" or even the "I hear my Master calling" and often I've seen the free actually refuse to go along IC, refusing to excuse the slave from the roleplay.  Then the slave player has to go OOC and explain and by then both parties are often annoyed.  If a free person says they need to go to their room, or that duty calls, no one questions.

Now, in all fairness, the free person doesn't necessarily know the slave has to log, they think it's just RP, and reacting hoping to get a better scene.  A slave asks to be excused?  It's his right IC to say no, especially if he doesn't realize it's an OOC reason.  This is why I no chose to NOT handle it IC.  I don't want the confusion, I don't want to mix the two, or have my OOC spill over into IC even in this small way.  Nor do I want the free players to compromise how they would react to a slave asking to be excused by having to RP accomodating my OOC needs.

So, I just say "Thanks for the RP I gotta log now" or "AFK a few I'm on the phone".  This has nothing to do with being a slave, nor do I consider it permission, just courtesy.  I like when people tell me the same too.  If I'm standing there for 20 minutes waiting on a post and someone comes back with "Sorry was AFK" I feel a bit stupid and if they just poof mid scene I'm not sure if they crashed and I should wait for them to come back or not.


As for where this comes from originally?  Well not so long ago it was common for many gorean sims (actually there are still are some) to have slave rules that included things like
-must log in and out from kennels, and naked
-must put certain information in their profile
-must ask permission to go off sim
-must ask in group chat if anyone needs to be served
-must ask permission to log off or go afk

I do get that some like this type of experience, but I'm glad to see it go by the wayside as a general rule.  It doesn't mean we can't be courteous and respectful of our fellow players, but sometimes we need to realize that just as it might be disrespectful not to do these things when we have that arrangement with someone, it's equally disrespectful to force that arrangement on someone who is uncomfortable with it.


I suppose in a strange way, a slave player forcing their RL submissiveness on a player OOC is no different than a man who considers himself a Master in RL forcing his dominance on me OOC.  I'm all for those who enjoy that cross over, I'm the last to judge as I have had OOC arrangements of this nature, but I find it better to err on the side of assuming someone would not being comfortable with this until I know or it's established otherwise.

[Violetta Daviau]

When I was playing slave lately, I had also scenes like this:

(master did not order anything anymore)
Topaz: "May I be dismissed master? I need to yet prepare the night room for my master."
Master: "No."
IM Vio: Sorry, I am really tired, I need to go to bed really
IM Guy: Well you heard my reply IC
IM Vio: I am not a RL sub, just as info
IM Guy: What are you doing in Gor then, girl?

[bunni Maven]

That right there is why the lines are so blurred.

No matter what you are in life, you should still be able to apply your own rhyme and reason to things.  There are limits to everything and I will be the first to tell anyone that TPE type relationships should not occur over an internet connection...

[Delaynie Barbosa]

When I was playing slave lately, I had also scenes like this:

(master did not order anything anymore)
Topaz: "May I be dismissed master? I need to yet prepare the night room for my master."
Master: "No."
IM Vio: Sorry, I am really tired, I need to go to bed really
IM Guy: Well you heard my reply IC
IM Vio: I am not a RL sub, just as info
IM Guy: What are you doing in Gor then, girl?

This is why I have taken up the habit of "hearing" the call for me to come home.  Even those who hold the opinion that a slave is a slave is a slave should know that a slave that isn't their slave isn't theirs to command. I admit that's a bit of BDSM outlook, but there you have it.  You wouldn't put your hands on someone else's girlfriend, call someone else's wife "honey," and in Gor you wouldn't walk into another man's house and take his sword.... therefore who are you to keep his slave from her duties? I know that in Gor any slave can be used by any free, tradtionally the use of another's slave would be paid for. So even ICly... free don't have an unwarrented right to keep a slave away from her duty, if he's not paying for her use.

[Linnet Foggarty]

When I was playing slave lately, I had also scenes like this:

(master did not order anything anymore)
Topaz: "May I be dismissed master? I need to yet prepare the night room for my master."
Master: "No."
IM Vio: Sorry, I am really tired, I need to go to bed really
IM Guy: Well you heard my reply IC
IM Vio: I am not a RL sub, just as info
IM Guy: What are you doing in Gor then, girl?

This is why I don't ask IC, I just don't like the implication, don't like using OOC motivation to direct RP, nor how it could turn out.

As with anything IC he can react however he wants to a character asking that via RP, even saying no.  By then telling him that his only option IC and in RP is to let the slave character go because the typist has to go... well it usually gets ugly.

So when I have to go, I just tell them I have to go, OOC because it has nothing to do with RP.
I feel that if I start mixing IC/OOC first, I can't very well fault them for following my lead.


@ Delaynie... I saw a slave RP that she "heard" her Master calling IC.  The man she was serving called her a liar, because he didn't hear anything, and beat her near to death and kept her there until her Master came to get her.  After that day, I will never use an IC reason to explain or ask permission for something about my RL.

[Shikhandi Panthar]

I totally concur with Xaz and Linnet on this one.

Not saying that this sort of thing happens often, but I once role-played for a while on a BTB-labelled sim, and soon realized that the slave players were told to ask OOC -- not IC thank God! -- if they could log off, relog, etc.

To be honest, I would fully understand this coming from a close RP partner for instance, who says "goodbye" before leaving a scene. But having every random player you come across jump into your IMs to ask that sort of question, even if some might consider it a badge of respect and politeness, is annoying to no end, in my opinion. Not only does this break the suspension of make-belief the RP is all about. It also assumes that you want to take responsibility for the other player OOC or RL actions, which is quite a lot to ask from a total stranger! It is perhaps customary in some BDSM circles to proceed in this fashion, but I don't see it has it's place on a RPG. If someone has to log, the person should just find an elegant ending to the scene and say so OOC, no need to ask!

[Bara Mayako]

When I was playing slave lately, I had also scenes like this:

(master did not order anything anymore)
Topaz: "May I be dismissed master? I need to yet prepare the night room for my master."
Master: "No."
IM Vio: Sorry, I am really tired, I need to go to bed really
IM Guy: Well you heard my reply IC
IM Vio: I am not a RL sub, just as info
IM Guy: What are you doing in Gor then, girl?

In a similar situation, I logged, and when I returned, I gave the log to the mods.  If they didn't back me up on this, I had decided beforehand, then that sim was not for me. They told me that he was a lifestyler and to ignore him.  And since they wouldn't tell him to respect my not being a lifestyler, I left.

Unless the only part of Gor that lifestylers feel is significant is the master-slave aspect, it  seems to me that they are selective.  Would they consider a warrior a coward or cheater and demand force collaring or a RP ban for logging out in the middle of a battle or conflict in order pick up their children? 

Oh and I can think of about a dozen or so apt remarks to answer that ***, but I'm curious to hear what Vio's answer was. I'm sure she's capable of something quite ... interesting

[Revenge Sempati]

Would they consider a warrior a coward or cheater and demand force collaring or a RP ban for logging out in the middle of a battle or conflict in order pick up their children? 

It happens.

As for slave requesting permission to tend to RL matters.  I am rather open and easy going about that, if a person has to go number of ways to go about it, some people are douche nuggets, some are polite and understand.  IMO slave or free if you are actively part of a scene but need to go I consider it polite to let other know that need to go, whether that IM or muttering in IC, but to demand some stay is a bit much.

I know some people have that OOC BDSM relationship or have those preferences for their slave, and that is perfectly fine.  But as it is often said RL trumps all when push comes to shove.  I know been a couple times kid comes up to me screaming or bleeding...I do not even log off....sorry but when shit happens my focus isn't being polite and active in a game.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I began to wonder where the heck did this come from that a slave should ask such instead of just saying (( Look time for me to jet, see you all later))  which could just be handled IC by I need to kennel, go to my furs, pen or what ever they do to leave role-play, I mean ooc I have never seen a Free person ask permission to log and ooc we are ALL free persons…then I found it.

Often this is included in sim slave rules.  I can remember at least 3 or 4 RP sims that had this rule that were not lifestyle sims.  I usually ignore this if I find it and if this comes up in the scene I offer an IC explanation to close out the scene and an OOC "heads up" that I am leaving politely rather than asking for permission.

[Anarch]

This is not related to me, but I think you'll find that there is more than a handful of people in SL Gor (mostly BtB sims) that like to stick to these "lifestyler" tendencies, and even slaves that prefer being treated like this and will just roll their eyes at the notion that slave RPers have equal OOC rights as Free RPers.

It's not what floats my boat, but if it's how others get their enjoyment out of things... well... who are we to judge, I guess.


But then we get the occassions where worlds collide and these OOC Masters start telling female moderators to piss off and that raiding on Easter is ungorean and and... party-time has begun. 

[Alaria Voss]

I "believe" it came from some of the gorean chat rooms pre SL gor...after all that was where a lot of the original SL goreans came from, bringing their rules with them 

Five years ago it was the norm!  Thats when I came to sl Gor, and that was what was expected in just about every sim, from just about every free person.

I never really got into the habit though, my rl was Ala's Master, so he knew exactly what is happening in the rl and would just send Ala off to "tend the bosk"  ....  ahhh the joys of a tuchuk owner 

We also talked a lot about these expectations, and right from the start, found it odd.  The asking to kennel is the IC exit of a scene, I get that, but as has been pointed out - what if the free person decides to say "no" then ICly you are sh*t out of luck!  If you leave anyhow - ICly you can be punished for ICly disobeying the free.   So I am with Pancake, by crossing the OOC need into an IC request....just asking for trouble. 

Instead, it is polite for all players to give a heads up if they have advance warning of needing to leave or just explain in IM "sorry rl happening, got to go".  It doesn't even need an explaination as to what in rl.  RL always trumps SL.