A bit of a dangerous subject . . . .

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May 2012

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[Dutchy Moonshadow]

In an rp story I am involved ,
a girl is pregnant . . .
she doesn't like it , the man responsible doesn't like it .
She is a free woman with slave tendencies that gave herself to the man ,
he couldn't resist *grins
But he wants to companion someone else , and have her raise the child .
The woman in question however is really doubtfull if she wants to raise that child . . .

Now I was wondering , is there any word of abortion in the books . . .
Does it exist in Gor ?
I don't want to start a debat about the right or wrong about it . . .
Something like this must have happend in Gor . . .
What was done , that is what I am asking .

[ramond lax]

I don't recall any book references to Abortion on Gor, but I find it most unlikely. Goreans Valued family too highly for that. 

The Child would fall under the Father's wing, if i recall, and would be raised by Him and his house.  My suggestion would be for him to simply get a slave to care for it in the FW's stead, while the Grown-ups enjoy the conflict RP that ensues from a Man and his Companion argue over her violating his wishes. 

[Randall Reich]

I can't recall any mentions of it in the books.  If the subject were broached though I imagine that it would be something not practiced in Gor.  I could see perhaps ritual infanticide being more prevalent than abortion.  Much like the Spartans, since so much of Gor is based on Ancient Greece and Rome, I could see killing off babies who were born sickly and weak, especially if they were born to a slave, but abortion the way we do it here on Earth, no.  Gorean and Earthen values, social systems and lifestyles are too different. 

[Dutchy Moonshadow]

I can't recall any mentions of it in the books.  If the subject were broached though I imagine that it would be something not practiced in Gor.  I could see perhaps ritual infanticide being more prevalent than abortion.  Much like the Spartans, since so much of Gor is based on Ancient Greece and Rome, I could see killing off babies who were born sickly and weak, especially if they were born to a slave, but abortion the way we do it here on Earth, no.  Gorean and Earthen values, social systems and lifestyles are too different. 

Yes I thought of this one . . .
I have noticed the simularities bewteen Gor and Ancient Greece and Rome . . .
*ponders about what is posted already . . .
And what about jealousy of the soon to be companion ,
ordered to raise the child . . . murder perhaps ?
Just trying to get some ideas for the storyline as a whole *smiles

[Yaynenali Resident]

I could see the Companion killing off the baby she may only see as a slave child anyway. She could easily blame it on a bothersome slave. I agree that it would not be the abortion process that we know on Earth.

[Triad Fallen]

Well see ,....coughs............ the brothers of the lady should go around to his house giving him a  good beating ,work him up and down the street then tell him he has to FC her.Very simple really and they all live happy ever after.

[Husam Darkfire]

Not that this is directly related but:

"The child has been examined, I said. It has been found sound. It will be permitted to live. It is now an Alar. Too, he has lifted the child up. In this he acknowledges it as his own" - Mercenaries of Gor page 41

What it does show is that while family may have had value within the gorean society for the most part, some facets of gor placed other values on whether a child was permitted to live or not.

So it may not be much of a stretch to assume that depending on the gorean society a pregnancy might not guarantee that the baby would be permitted to survive.

Granted, not every possible detail is described in JN's world but there might be room for a bit of extended RP on how an unwanted pregnancy might be handled within that specific society.

Turn it over to a panther tribe if a girl?

FW goes on travel for a few months and after giving birth then pays to have the baby delivered under the cover of darkness to another city high caste woman that's barren?

Sounds like a good opportuinity for some creative rp and the chance to get others involved in a bit of an ongoing storyline.

[bunni Maven]

I would post the GC group chat log but I'm not sure if i can.  IIRC, abortion would not be a gorean act.  Again, valuing life and all.  And if neither likes it, why are they rping it........ who...wants to RP an abortion................

[Sayrax wiefel]

Rp as you want, dont let our values or book quotes interfer with what you and those that are interacting in the scene want.  That is as far as i will comment on this.

[Blade Snowdrop]

No to abortion, Maybe to the infant killing, definetly the FM got screwed over.

[Kail Lefevre]

Your Question

In an rp story I am involved ,
a girl is pregnant . . .
she doesn't like it , the man responsible doesn't like it .
She is a free woman with slave tendencies that gave herself to the man ,
he couldn't resist *grins
But he wants to companion someone else , and have her raise the child .
The woman in question however is really doubtfull if she wants to raise that child . . .

My answer

The selling of infant daughters is not that unusual in large
cities. Some women do it regularly. They make a practice of
it, much as they might sell their hair to hair merchants or to
the weavers of catapult ropes. Some women, it is rumored,
hope for daughters, that they may sell them to the slave
trade. These women, in effect, breed for slaves. Too, there is
a common Gorean belief that females are natural slaves, a
belief for which there is much evidence, incidentally, and in
the light of this belief some families would rather sell a
daughter than raise her. Mercenaries of Gor page 444

No abortion, just have her have the child like normal and then sell it. She can get new shoes.

[Sayrax wiefel]

"The child has been examined, I said. It has been found sound. It will be permitted to live. It is now an Alar. Too, he has lifted the child up. In this he acknowledges it as his own" - Mercenaries of Gor page 41

what do you think would have happened if wasent fit for life, Ms Shoe girl lol

[Eternity Starsmith]

I don't recall any book references to Abortion on Gor, but I find it most unlikely. Goreans Valued family too highly for that. 

The Child would fall under the Father's wing, if i recall, and would be raised by Him and his house.  My suggestion would be for him to simply get a slave to care for it in the FW's stead, while the Grown-ups enjoy the conflict RP that ensues from a Man and his Companion argue over her violating his wishes. 

I hate to say it but if Goreans valued family, they wouldn't take children away from slaves or make slaves out of children, which they do in the books. Fathers sell their daughters into slavery to pay debts (one person so wryly mentioned to me a while back inworld that in such a case, it's not like the father couldn't buy her back as a slave. She wouldn't be considered his daughter anymore, just an animal for use). Females who become slaves lose their families and gain the status of animals. I was just reading one of the books where the girls on literary display engaging in slave behaviors still had 4 years or so left before they had the markers of a womanly body. I'd guess .. at most 12 years old maybe or younger? 10? A kid. John Norman didn't reveal the age but only inferred it because obviously he would have known he was treading on dangerous ground. In the book, this little girl was paraded about the streets naked while begging to be a slave, while men ogled her immature body. The men spoke of how they had furred girls that age in taverns like it was an every day common thing and not an issue. The fact is that part of the system of slavery that reduces girls to animals would also include pedophilia. If they are made slave, their well being (and even their life) is not important, thus neither is their age. And if their well being isn't important because they are deemed slave or deemed to become slave, then there is no family. To that end, there is no moral value in family. In fact it doesn't exist, at least for those deemed unworthy by virtue of their sex and position in Gorean society.

But in any case, abortion... would be fully up to the man and would happen or not happen based on his whim. Heck, he could rip the baby right out of a slaves belly and walk away, insides all over the dirt. And heck, if you can slaughter slaves with impunity because they're mere animals and nothing more than possessions, then a baby girl would likely not be particularly protected. Someone recently mentioned to me (and I have not confirmed it so if someone could confirm it or correct me, I'd love that) that there are many more females in Gor than males, according to the books. If that's the case, females wouldn't be worth much. Since their lives as slaves aren't valued, if baby girls are headed for the path of slavery, they're probably nothing but a burden especially if they're ugly. Imagined deformed baby girls. Think of how displeasing they are when they scream bloody murder and poop in a diaper. Better off impaled on a pike, I bet some would say. We all play a romanticized Gor, don't we?

[Kail Lefevre]

what do you think would have happened if wasent fit for life, Ms Shoe girl lol

In gor it would be killed and that would be a mercy. In SL killing a baby even in role play is a ToS infraction and you can get banned. Go with the selling role play. You don't even have to rp it out, black scene it and if some one asks, just tell them you gave her to some one else. You don't have to tell any one where the shoes came from or how you afforded them.

[Kaijah Thorne]

 And if neither likes it, why are they rping it........ who...wants to RP an abortion................

Exactly to the point if they do not like it then why are they rping it, I suppose there are a few twists and turns they can come up with such as each hire an assassin and voila, end of them both and pregnancy.