Qualifications for BTB and GE

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May 2012

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[Garrgon Resident]

I'm starting this thread for Steamyraj. Initially I was going to respond privately to his question in another thread, but then he won't get others input and opinion. I only ask that you not turn this into a GE vs BTB thread. It's not about which is better. It's about helping him (and probably others) understand the differences.

I'm so sorry for my little knowledge.. but where can i find thread or rules on these labels...

1. what is it to qualify to be BTB
2. what is it to qualify to be GE
3. What it is to be a Gorean RP ( both RP or BTB)

I find this topic very interesting so please can someone really help me with above 3 points and in the end i would like to understand the RP based on fiction... Thank you!!!

[Garrgon Resident]

My answer:

Hi Steam,

There's some disagreement about what it means to be BTB (By the Book), but the deciding factor is whether or not you allow Fighting Armed Females in your sim.

GE is for Gor Evolved, and these are the sims that you'll find the Fighting Armed Females. They're in Mercenary groups, Pirate groups, Outlaw groups mostly but you can also find women defending their cities with bows in a GE city.

In my experience, BTB sims tend to focus more on the roleplay and less on combat, while GE is the opposite - they focus more on combat and less on roleplay. That's not to say that combat isn't found in BTB (it is), or that people in GE sims don't roleplay (they do), but the focus is definitely one or the other.

The third question went over my head. Maybe reword it?

[Xaz Elephas]

Well Gargron covered it pretty good. Back when I was at the first few BTB meetings. It was to focus on not allowing femlaws in Gor and the label By the Book was born. Now its grown to cover more things and means that sims with this label try to be by the books as close as possible.

GE, Gorean evolved... is just that, they allow femlaws and a lot more that BTB does not.

One thing I like is... in the theme of the books which sims try to be by the book but they are also more open-minded to think outside the box but not as open minded as a GE sim.  That is my preferred role-play in Gor: If it’s plausible... I use to say I was strict BTB when BTB meant No femlaws but now a days it is so restricting that it does not allow for the possible to be played.

[steamyraj]

Thank you for you helping me... .... lets see where it goes.... ....

[Mel Fitzcarraldo]

Here's my view on what BtB is, and stays true to the spirit of what Gor is:

- Limitations set by the Priest Kings. They only allowed certain technology to advance to a degree. The impressions are late medieval in almost every phase of life with a bit of what I call Gorean Steampunk thrown in. Weapons were limited to physical and medieval, swords, axes, etc. No armor to speak of except for some leathers. The dress was Greco-Roman to leathers and furs in the north to cottons and silks in the south, and cotton like material throughout. Ships were wooden as far as I can remember, I don't recall any ironclads even. I'm not sure the dress was dictated by the Priest Kings but the limitation on industry certainly kept it within certain levels.

- Limitations set by codes, ether caste codes or personal codes. Were there bows used? Yep. Would a warrior use a bow instead of a sword? Not very likely and not very often. Would a woman (free or slave) use a bow or any other kind of large weapon? Only under very, very extreme circumstances (not including Panthers and such). A male slave would use only certain weapons only under defined circumstances also.

- Limitations posed by Nature. Gor is male dominated of course and it is taken as natural males lead in every respect and their opinions, even when wrong, are respected.

If a place strives to meet these limitations, even imperfectly, I believe they are keeping with the spirit of Gor. Anything else shouldn't even be called Gor.

Meletius

[Poisonous Adored]

In BTB sims, I saw (and they were not exceptions...):

- Women wearing sheer veils and cleavage, with flowing hair.

- Warriors looking like mad max and bikers

- Gothic, multi pierced kajirae

- Ubaras with flowing hair, sheer veils, ball gowns

- FW with heavy makeup

- FW making OOC drama if you dare to react IC to their sheer veil

- Men who dont have any issue with FW no properly covered with sheer veil, naked arms, cleavage

- Parents who have always twins, triplets. (wonderful nativity in SL-Gor)

- Families where each member has a different caste and homestone

- People changing homestone as they change clothes, a new city, a new homestone claimed. Same for caste, instead to create a new character.

- Ranks mean nothing. A woman high physician FCed in a wedding love ceremony the blacksmith. Everyone finds that very credible, anyways, that happens everyday in all BTB Gor. It's the normality.

- The Ubar FCed the baker (normality in SL-Gor)

- You are better to give to the local tavern master the same respect that you give to the ubar, even if by the rank and the caste, you are far over him, especially if you are a FW, because it's a man world, and you, the FW of high caste, you are only free because men, even low caste and lower rank, allow you to be free....

- A mouthy, bitch, sleen tempered FW is guilty of a collarable offense.

- Love is for companions, slaves are for chores only (because a man doesnt fuck his slaves, it would annoy his FC girl friend).

- Ignorance of NPC.... In BTB, it makes sense than every citizen knows each citizen's name in the city. If you are not in the sim group, you are a stranger.... Thousands of thousands people in a city? Ignored concept.

- A lot (too much) Southern characters live in the North and enjoys it

- A lot (too much) Northern characters live in the South and enjoys it

- People who are unable to separate a character from the typist. The kajira is of course a RL submissive, the bitchy FW is a RL bitch, the arrogant and brutal warrior is a RL arrogant and brutal ass.

- Sims mixing IC and OOC in their rules. You dont know if the IC laws mixed with the OOC rules are a requirement for your character to act in a certain way and if you will be sanctioned OOC if you do not do it (read Farnacium rules, for example)

- Slaves are not considered by OOC rules as a category of role players like other roles. Notecarded chores, obligation to behave OOC as IC, obligation to inform for OOC absence, to greet on chat group when logging, to be available for any RP etc (read Turmus rules). Find one sim where these obligations are imposed to people playing frees, and I will RP your kajira one full month.

- Lot of onlinisms (especially when it comes to slave players)

- People who dont have read one book

- IC conflicts are the evil

- Men are able to be harsh only when a kajira has been too long to kneel. Anyway, Gor is harsh only for kajirae, it's without risk, of course if the owner gave permission to discipline the girl. In the doubt, dont take risks with private ones, the city ones are more sure.

- Warriors are red knights on white tarns

- Warriors who show up only when raid

- Warriors who disappear when raid

- Ferals (yes, BTB RPers think that they exist)

- Honor is Gorean. If your character has no honor, it is not Gorean.... (anyway, playing a dishonorable character? Nah, I dont want to look bad! In RL I have honor, so, even if I RP a pot girl, even if I am an outlaw living by rape, murder and robbery, I am very honorable!)

- Fighting slaves helping with the city is attaqued (as everyone knows, slaves are very willing to sacrifice their life for their city)

- Kajirus bodyguards for panther girls

- FW coddling kajirae

- FW with sexy kajirae with naked breasts as tower slave

- FW with sexy kajirae in pretty silk, in leash

- FW are never jealous from slaves (erk, my character looking bad and petty? oh no no no!!)

- White silk slaves are pure young girls without any sexual desire

- FM organizing a raid upon a city because one guy from this city stole a kajira... That is of course, a valuable reason for a declaration of war.

- Ubar who is not of red caste

- The ubar is also the local slaver

- Low caste people are in the high council

- The high council: 9 women, 1 guy

- Sometimes, the regent, the administrator, is a woman

- Magistrates are women

- Libraries are for OOC stuff (luther scrolls and notecards from 2007, written by lifestylers, often full of onlinisms)

- Scribes of course are encouraged to do OOC stuff.

- Builders (of builder caste) must build really (the sim owner would like a new tarn tower or a bridge)

- People are mostly orphans, parents have been killed in terrible conditions.

- You lost your beloved parents, you found them back after an advertising on Gorean Family networking group (you have a twin sister brother, 15 aunts and uncle from GE and BTB sims, warriors, scribes, physicians, merchants, blacksmiths, Northern and Southern)

- Most sims are villages (with ubar and a lot of high castes)

- Women from North travelling in South dont wear veils and have naked arms (I dont recall a woman with naked arms in books, but maybe my memory....). It's like going in Iran with no hidjab, no veil, and in mini skirt because you are from USA....

- And generally, people who are unable to get rid of their Earth mentality.


So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than panther girls and talunas are allowed.

But even, it's not clear.... Some sims, instead to eject properly the random wench with sword and bow, in catsuit, send warriors to capture the girl, who is often a super GE bow and who will properly down your 3 poor fighters in red. You look ridiculous, your kennels dont count a new slave and of course, IC, you recognized the existence of female warriors. Other will follow until you get tired and decide to ban them, without any exception.
And dont forget BTB rpers playing in BTB sims who have family members in GE sims....

So for me, now, BTB means NOTHING.

What is GE? It's Age of Conan with Gorean vocabulary

[Nigaltwaddlesworthiii]

Wow Poisonous, ... you got burned huh..

I stick as best I can to places that are as in the spirit of the books as possible.. therefore..

I play my character as a Torvi man.. I dress as one (even if people think its ugly..).. I fight as one.. I rule my house as one.. I treat others as I should depending on who they are (character wise).. I dont say stupid non gorean things like "helsia", or talk with a highlander accent.. every man is certainly not my "brother"..  I do my best to stick to who and what I am..and still try to maintain some originality and room for creativitiy within the structure of the northern culture JN wrote about in his book about the region and its people..

My point is I have been able to find some pretty good sims to RP on that were in the spirit.. or as close to BTB as some can take.. so they do exsist out there if ya take the time to look ..and then look again..

[Sayrax wiefel]

eh....am goin to stay away from this one, I would not contribute well other hten just by not talking

[Mel Fitzcarraldo]

eh....am goin to stay away from this one, I would not contribute well other hten just by not talking

You just did 

[Kail Lefevre]

I posted this on another thread, I think it bares repeating for this one also.

I just had a conversation where I explained Gor BTB and GE to my slave

Gor 1.0  These people try to play as completely by the book as possible. Another name for this is By the Book

Gor 1.5  These people are like the first group except they either blatantly disregard any thing in the book that doesn't suit their beliefs on Gor or have not read enough to start with and use note cards and websites. Another name for this is Google Gor

Gor 2.0  These people are the ones that have women raiders, but other then that minor detail still do most other things right. Women are covered and all sexes wear real true to gor clothing. Another name for these people is Gorean Evolved.

Gor 2.5  These people are like 2.0 except they don't care for shit about clothing and their weapons only that there are slaves, some what medieval styled buildings and raids to be had. They are sadly what most types think of when they say GE. Another name for these people is Neo Gor. Soon to be followed by Gor 3.0 where neko ears and tails are seen often.

Most BTB'ers try to fall into the Gor 1.0 area, yet 2.0 and 1.5 beliefs tend to slowly work away at the base of these types and sooner or later 1.0 will fail to the popular 1.5 standards. I fancy my self some where between 1.0 and 1.5.  1.25? I know enough to know what the purest think but if Johnny doesn't say some thing in his books I like to use logic to work out if we have it or not.

This is SL and not Gor so it is completely impossible to do 100% by the books. Mostly because of our earthen up bringing then any thing else. A good example of this is the dresses that most free women wear. That are nothing at all like the robes of concealment from the novels. In fact those reminded me of what Arab women wear. Then there is also the mass bow use when in the books swords were the way to go. After all they said, "Steel is the coin of the warrior, with it you can take what you want." They did not say, "Arrow tips are the coin of the warrior, with them you can take what you want" did they?

So while you can 't do 100% by the book you at least dress for a medieval time period, minus the armor, if you are a man. If you are a woman keeping your flesh covered and your legs close and your hands off any weapon longer then a cock ( e.g. a dagger) then you are on the right start to being by the book. Having read some of them helps a ton. You can't really do by the book if you have not read one. If you try it you more or less find your self playing google gor. People that play google gor are also likely to take other peoples words for things only to find out later that they are not by the book.

A good GE group is just like the normal gor group except that women are allowed bows and non-sword melee. Most GE are not good GE groups though and a lot of their women dress little better then the sluts. Speaking of sluts, that is another big difference between ge and btb. More slaves are btb then Ge. You find a lot of mated pairs of free in GE. Every Ge sim I was ever a part of with 2 exceptions had a very low slave to free ratio. The two exceptions were the old Essex run by Dave and Ven on the Vosk, which is where the merc group I was a part of was.

I hope you found this helpful.
 

[Delaynie Barbosa]

You've hit a lot of points Sasi! :-D  but what about assassins thought emoting how they are agents of the Priest Kings? Or any other character emoting such for that matter? This is a senseless roleplay to me since

1. There's no sim of barbarians waiting around to get kidnapped to Gor.
2. Some of them make it sound like they really are roleplaying it. But since there's not, it amounts to godmodding. "I said I did, therefore I did."
3. Many if not most Goreans were unaware of the earth travel, thusly making it a roleplay opprotunity others cannot take part in, keeping that "On my last trip to Earth," thought emote nothing but  athought emote that can't be responded to. Maybe a "/me has no idea what XXXX thinks of Earth because I don't believe in Earth/ am a low caste and has no idea Earth exists/ does not know agents walk among us and can't gather what that look on his face means."  

That said, I'd love to see a couple of men get together and pick out a real superstitous slaver and recruit him into the ranks of agents. It would be interesting to see business as usual going on in the tavern as men whisper intergalactic plans amongst themselves in a red-silk curtained back room. Oh and that reminds me - everyone in SL Gor has second knowledge. All because they have a barbarian kajira.

[Sayrax wiefel]

eh....am goin to stay away from this one, I would not contribute well other hten just by not talking

You just did 

no that is typing

[Violetta Daviau]

...
So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than panther girls and talunas are allowed.
...

Correction:

"So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than INCLUDING panther girls and talunas are allowed."

[Poisonous Adored]

...
So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than panther girls and talunas are allowed.
...

Correction:

"So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than INCLUDING panther girls and talunas are allowed."

Some BTB sims consider that due to their geographical situation, panthers and talunas have nothing to do under their walls, except in disguise, and of course, as it's unrealistic, panther girls attacking a city is not accepted.

But their existence is recognized.

[Aphris Myoo]

...
So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than panther girls and talunas are allowed.
...

Correction:

"So, what does BTB mean? Certainly not "BY THE BOOKS". BTB means only, that no female fighter other than INCLUDING panther girls and talunas are allowed."
yea, and that same cities, visit every where in Gor. Often there slaves roam even the Tahari or Plains. Double standard.

Some BTB sims consider that due to their geographical situation, panthers and talunas have nothing to do under their walls, except in disguise, and of course, as it's unrealistic, panther girls attacking a city is not accepted.

But their existence is recognized.

And those same cities roam themselves all over Gor, specialy their slave girls. Double standard.