In the Spirit of the Book

Donations of any size and regularity are always welcome to help offset the costs of maintaining this site.

May 2012

Su	Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa
		1	2	3	4	5
6	7	8	9	10	11	12
13	14	15	16	17	18	19
20	21	22	23	24	25	26
27	28	29	30	31
______ Holidays ______
May 28 - Memorial Day

[Branwyn Emerald]

Okay, I understand why some have chosen to name their sims “In the spirit of the book” or “close to the books”, because they are sick and tired of everyone else who doesn’t know what the hell ROLE-PLAY means, climb up their ass and into their IM’s giving them hell.

But I REFUSE to give up my definition.  I am BY THE BOOK, I will stay BtB, I will continue to teach day in and day out five days a week that I am By the Book, and I will continue, require and demand that we role-play by them.  I am a Gorean!  I am a Role-Player!  And I will NEVER compromise who and what we are, I will not kow tow to the snobbery of others who choose to define WHO I am.

Ironhall and the Tor’Mark Fell are BtB, we are role-players, and we role-play BY the BOOKS because Gor is a series of BOOKS and we are role-playing by them.  If you have a sim, and you do NOT have female warriors engaging in outbound raid and warfare, then stand up and stop kow towing.

We are, and shall remain By the Book, if you agree, if you don’t agree, if you care or if you don’t care.  I will NOT bow down to someone else’s definition of my role-play BY THE BOOKS.

Have a nice day.

To the rest of you “compromising”, get off your knees and stand the HELL up! This is Gor, and we ARE by the book.  Tell everyone else to just “shut up and role-play.”

[Delaynie Barbosa]

* Delaynie Barbosa hugs Branwyn.   I hope you feel better now. I know change is difficult. And it's not for everyone. If BtB still works for Tor'Mark Fell, then so be it. But for a lot of people it's not working anymore.  I hope the changes going around won't affect Ironhall & co.'s ability to roleplay together or with other sims. 

[Branwyn Emerald]

*hugs Delaynie back*

I'm working on feeling better, tho i could REALLY use a cigarette right now!  And I LOVE change, really.  And I know that BtB doesn't work for everyone, I'm just so MAD that people are being pushed into using new names because "others" wont leave them the HELL alone.  We have and WILL rp with everyone, BtB and GE, because we ARE role-players, and most of you are lovely and wonderful, and fun.

I just dont know why we need to kow tow to the minority who are trying to define who we ARE, and I'm saying, I wont kow tow.  We are and shall remain btb, regardless of what others say we are or we are not.

We are, and SHALL remain ...

[Syndel Daviau]

Nobody is pushed to do anything, Bran. That's a hardcore assumption. Some simply prefer the definition as it is more accurate to what the reality of things are...

Imperial Ar is in the spirit of the books simply because the books are open for interpretation as is any other form of literature and we aren't about to sit there and nitpick on every little detail instead of actually roleplaying and having fun.

We've done that in the past, in the attempt to be strictly BtB, and it simply became more like being employed to Bitchfestery, moderating non-stop, castrating people in many ways, suffocating the possibilities instead of dealing with them in-character. And, in the end of the day, there was no gratification, no happiness, an everlasting bitter taste in the mouth.

So, now, instead, we have a Code of Conduct for the sim, based on the books, and people have the option of following or dealing with IC consequences. I believe people are adults and can patrol themselves to keep within the theme and, so far, it has worked just fine.

http://imperialar.info/dresscode.htm

And what is more mandatory to us like no combative women, no panthers, and other matters that usually jeopardize an environment that follows the ideals of the books, are covered in our rules and discreetly enforced when someone happens to forget to read them.

[Spirit Lapis]

pets my branwyn the verr, a cute pressie from a Man that looks like a Kurr from behind (oh god dont ask i almost attacked him thinkin he was a kurii attacking a Mistress in Cos ), hehe... pets it listening to it make cute likkel verr noises.... there there Branwyn... it will be okay... *fluffs it up and gives it a cute pink ribbon for its helmet*...

[Alaria Voss]

Perhaps the difference can be explained as simply as

BTB - Did it happen in the books?

In the Spirit of the Books - Could it have happened in the books. Without breaking the flavour or intent of the writers world?

I am not talking about armed wormen (though there are at least two instances in the books of that happening)

I am not talking about female slaves fighting in defence of their owner's home (again that happened in the books)

I am not talking about female led society (Tharna anyone?)

Because while there are book references of each of those things happening, that isn't this debate here.

I have no issue with someone labeling themselves BTB, or In the spirit of the books. My own experience is the latter (generally) to be more interested in the story than looking for chapter and page of proof of where there is book evidence supporting it.

Point in case.... Ala's current owner recently pierced her nipples. Something the BTBers will say is not gorean, as it didn't happen in the books. However his reasoning was, he had seen a barbarian girl with them, and HE liked them. So we are in a man's world where he gets to choose what would happen to his beast, and he knew the mind fuck on her would be reasonably major. That to me is what gorean men do - what they want with their property.

Is it plausible? Well at the end of the day, each person has to decide that for themself. (and this thread is not to debate that action, so I ask it doesn't disolve into just that, thanks) I suspect it comes down to the time line of your Gor. I have always assumed we are 100 or so years after the books. It is /possible/ that girls taking in the voyages of acquisition would or could have nipple piercings and even tattoos.

And yes, I have already had a comment or two (ooc) from BtBers. Where as those playing in the "spirit of the books" are more likely to rp to find out the story behind it.

[Caranda Schreiner]

Personally I would have said that BTB means the same as "in the spirit of the books".  Only people who try to attack BTB think it means that you can only RP events that actually occurred in the books.  BTB does not mean using the books as a script or an encyclopedia of all allowable RP.  BTB means RPing within the scope of Gorean culture as described in the books.

[Violetta Daviau]

...
We've done that in the past, in the attempt to be strictly BtB, and it simply became more like being employed to Bitchfestery, moderating non-stop, castrating people in many ways, suffocating the possibilities instead of dealing with them in-character. And, in the end of the day, there was no gratification, no happiness, an everlasting bitter taste in the mouth.
...

It would be so nice to have IC city laws that are being followed and also cover certain cultural aspects of Gor. And if people break them, e.g. by dressing too scantly or mistreating a FW, they get sued and a trial and if considered guilty, a punishment.
I had 2 such trials so far, both in GE, one against me (by outlaws), one done by me (as outlaw hehe, but then including the slave torture to speak witness - the same fake torture though that is in Tribesmen). It would really be the next consequence for ICA=ICC, and maybe a great chance for roleplays for scribes and administrator players.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I'm GE.   

One issue I have always had with the entire BTB argument is that for the most part we have all evolved beyond what is offered in the books to provide a more detailed and "fuller" existence for RP.  The books offer villains, heroes and generalities about the culture so we know which side is which.  I would hope to see that in RP but there is also the day to day existence.  Show me the most BTB city in SL Gor and there will be things that stand out which aren't "in" the books and even a few things that never could have happened in the books. 

Many people are offended by female warriors but I'm just as offended by women in positions of power that don't require a sword such as "Heads of Caste".  Many people are offended by fighting slaves yet I am equally offended by slaves who play their role as if they just walked off the acquisition ship with no skill in anything at all yet they are "pleasure slaves". 

My only test has always been can I consistently create a gorean story based on my knowledge of the books with what I am given in build, fellow players, and sim rules.  The BTB label is meaningless to me and certainly not something I hang on to as an all defining Mantra as the OP seems to indicate we should.  Some places I can comfortably create that story and other places I cannot all under the BTB umbrella.

[Nigaltwaddlesworthiii]

Well I will tell you why I would choose "In the spirit of the books" over BTB now..

Because most so called BTB sims.. aren't..

They are full of onlineisms.. and men dressed like cave men or mad max.. speaking in a dialect I never once saw in the books.. and even some of them letting women fight now..and those that don't let them wander all over Gor with no protection or worry....
so.. fuck it.. I don't want that label anymore because thats what its come down to.. if and when it gets back to words meaning what they are supposed to.. Ill go back to using them.. till then..  We will run the sim as close to the spirit of the books as we can.. and enjoy the role play..

I don't cow tow to anyone.. I decide what is important for me as a role player to enjoy.

[Violetta Daviau]

I'm GE.   

One issue I have always had with the entire BTB argument is that for the most part we have all evolved beyond what is offered in the books to provide a more detailed and "fuller" existence for RP.  The books offer villains, heroes and generalities about the culture so we know which side is which.  I would hope to see that in RP but there is also the day to day existence.  Show me the most BTB city in SL Gor and there will be things that stand out which aren't "in" the books and even a few things that never could have happened in the books. 

Many people are offended by female warriors but I'm just as offended by women in positions of power that don't require a sword such as "Heads of Caste".  Many people are offended by fighting slaves yet I am equally offended by slaves who play their role as if they just walked off the acquisition ship with no skill in anything at all yet they are "pleasure slaves". 

My only test has always been can I consistently create a gorean story based on my knowledge of the books with what I am given in build, fellow players, and sim rules.  The BTB label is meaningless to me and certainly not something I hang on to as an all defining Mantra as the OP seems to indicate we should.  Some places I can comfortably create that story and other places I cannot all under the BTB umbrella.

Wow, I love that post, really and in a good and honest sense. I had to look up if this really came from the Kaitlin I had so many verbal quarrels with, I could not believe it, but... wow

[Poisonous Adored]

Personally I would have said that BTB means the same as "in the spirit of the books".  Only people who try to attack BTB think it means that you can only RP events that actually occurred in the books.  BTB does not mean using the books as a script or an encyclopedia of all allowable RP.  BTB means RPing within the scope of Gorean culture as described in the books.

Yes, it's that BTB should mean, it's that I apply, myself and people I like to RP with.

But in SL Gor, the BTB and GE labels, mean simply, now: Female warriors allowed or not.

Regarding the meaningless of the BTB label, we got already this discussion in another thread, where myself I dropped in a post, a long list of my pet peeves encountered in BTB sims, points that were not by the books at all....

[Delaynie Barbosa]

It would be so nice to have IC city laws that are being followed and also cover certain cultural aspects of Gor. And if people break them, e.g. by dressing too scantly or mistreating a FW, they get sued and a trial and if considered guilty, a punishment.
I had 2 such trials so far, both in GE, one against me (by outlaws), one done by me (as outlaw hehe, but then including the slave torture to speak witness - the same fake torture though that is in Tribesmen). It would really be the next consequence for ICA=ICC, and maybe a great chance for roleplays for scribes and administrator players.

This is a great idea, but IC laws have become too restrictive, or they are outdated, or you can't tell which laws are OOC, which ones are IC, and which ones are mere suggestions.  I think it makes sense to publish IC laws because people who live in a given place would know what laws applied in their city, and laws weren't universal all over. I don't mean like, "Free women must wear veils or face the magistrate to determine if she should recieve a collar." That's impractical and people want to show their avatars. But a more practical law might be "Face stripping of free women without approval of a Magistrate is a criminal offense, and the criminal will be arrested and face the magistrate in a court of law."  The other side of IC laws is people don't want to read the materials or may find them to restictive.  Fair enough too, so what I propose instead is to have "BTB events".

Hours or days where themes and scenes directly from the books can be played out. Women agree to not harrass men too much, men agree to be take charge (without the assholishness that sometimes accompanies such an atitude), slaves agree to watch their mouths and be pleasing. Perhaps first girls can go around slave goading the other slaves in the house, ala Elizabeth Cardwell, I forget which book it was.  These events of course will lead to some scenes going in their own direction, which will be the basis for ongoing RP once the event is over.  So you can get people back into the books, experience some literal Goreanisms, and get back on their way. Using scenes as inspiration, so to speak.

[Mordachai Draegonne]

We have the "no facestripping or face the magistrate and almost certain death" rule, though it only applies to the local free women. Those visiting would be wise to either bring some guards or they may run into some serious trouble. on that matter its not actually illegal for a Free woman to not weir veils in most cities, hell there is even a passage in the books where a free woman, travelling with Tarl, has nothing more then a short dress on. It happens on a bridge in Ko-Ro-Ba. She then meets a free woman in her full robes of concealment and , in an attempt to get her to loosen up a bit, talks her into dressing the same was as she is dressed, discarding the robes on the ground. Afterwards they go off to have some wine.

There is no law against free women being scantly dressed, it is not an offense for which she can be collared.Ofcourse most women on Gor would be scandalized by the mere thought of it and would prefer their full regalia.  Showing heat and slavelike behaviour... that is grounds for enslavement.


but i digress: On topic i think there is far too much labelling these days and, if i truly had to choose Ïn the spirit of the books" would be my choice aswell. I accept things that, in my opinion, could logically have happened in the books. Like piercings for example. Many clothes for slaves come with nipplepiercings. Some claim it is not btb since it wasnt described, I feel that in all the years that Gor existed, there surely must have been at least one Man who held an earring in his hand, looked at his slave's nipple and thought: "I wonder how this will look.. *yank*".

What i personally do not like in sl Gor these days is how more then half of the Men play a character that is an absolute arsehole because its the cool thing to do. Or how everyone is swearing in rp the entire time "fuck this, fuck that, son of a bitch here", i would prefer more of the curses that were in the books like "Sleen". In the 18 books ive read, i found that Goreans were generally very courteous, very respectful, even when speaking to sworn enemies. Sure, they would think "You son of a bitch, im going to fucking kill your sorry ass the first chance i get", but they would say something more in the lines of: "I look forward to seeing you in battle soon".... Oh, and i hate those bloody bagpipes and trumpets too..

[Mercy Riiser]

What i personally do not like in sl Gor these days is how more then half of the Men play a character that is an absolute arsehole because its the cool thing to do. Or how everyone is swearing in rp the entire time "fuck this, fuck that, son of a bitch here", i would prefer more of the curses that were in the books like "Sleen". In the 18 books ive read, i found that Goreans were generally very courteous, very respectful, even when speaking to sworn enemies. Sure, they would think "You son of a bitch, im going to fucking kill your sorry ass the first chance i get", but they would say something more in the lines of: "I look forward to seeing you in battle soon".... Oh, and i hate those bloody bagpipes and trumpets too..

I agree with you.  In traveling around the other day I came across a FM in a significant rp position for his village who actually had his GM meter read "Asshole".  I mean....what can you say except "Be well" as you head to the gates to leave.