In the Spirit of the Book

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Kaitlin Eiren]

Somehow I find this topic funny coming from a talking verr. Perhaps someone could point out that story-line in books for me.

Thank you!

Hmm that's the second time I've seen that.  Talking verr?

Branwyn is a verr. ;-)
But only somtimes, she's also the High Jarl Woman of Torvladsland.

Thanks for the information.  In every visit I've ever made to Ironhall she was the High Jarl's woman so I was clueless.  Do you mean emoting verr of actions & thoughts or that the people hold a conversations with a verr who speaks their language.  Two very different things...

[Delaynie Barbosa]

Somehow I find this topic funny coming from a talking verr. Perhaps someone could point out that story-line in books for me.

Thank you!

Hmm that's the second time I've seen that.  Talking verr?

Branwyn is a verr. ;-)
But only somtimes, she's also the High Jarl Woman of Torvladsland.

Thanks for the information.  In every visit I've ever made to Ironhall she was the High Jarl's woman so I was clueless.  Do you mean emoting verr of actions & thoughts or that the people hold a conversations with a verr who speaks their language.  Two very different things...

I don't know. I've only met her in RP once, at the Sardar Fair. She was offering people rides in her cart. I actually thought it was kind of cute. She was tired as all get out, having been there for 12 hours. And frankly, in the spirit of fun, I didn't see anything wrong with her talking verr. She was just having a bit of fun after all her hard work after all.

[Poisonous Adored]

For me personally, being BTB is about a lot more then just not being a woman that waves a scimitar around. It's about dressing the part, acting the part, researching and understanding your role, not barking like a dog when your voice is restored by a miracle cure (yup, seen it). All of those things make up a BTB roleplayer. But...

If you go to any BTB sim what you will never see is women walking around with bows on their back or a sword on their hip. What you might see though is some less then BTB behavior. So clearly there is not as much of a calling to be book-accurate as there is to be a non fighting female.

So I think that what Sasi is trying to say (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that the femlaw issue is the one solid clear line that divides BTB from GE. The separation of BTB and GE didn't happen because a slave called another "sissy". It happened because people were tired of leather bound fighting raiding women.

ETA: Dammit how did I get pulled into this discussion? Might as well be talking religion or politics. *shivers*

Yes that, Garr! And it doesnt matter how people qualify themselves BTB. I recall a woman in a city where I was, in November, she qualified herself BTB: She was high magistrate and wore a sheer veil. She renounced to the sheer veil only after the admin explained her in OOC, that my mockeries were IC, first, and that second, yes, indeed, sheer veils were a Taharian slave's custom. She claimed to be an experienced RPer (avi from 2007) and affirmed that she had read the books.

Since, now, clearly, if personally, BTB is more that this separation, if my RP tends even more, now, to evolve toward a strict application of Gorean customs and culture, I stopped to expect from sims, the reciprocal. Sim owners care more for their traffic, they fear the "intolerant" and "freak control" labels, and so, are very permissive (I know BTB sims accepting ferals, even BTB sims writing in their rules that armed femlaws showing up will be collared........)

Delaynie: Yes, good idea, but BTB, it's only 3 letters  

[Mordachai Draegonne]

What i personally do not like in sl Gor these days is how more then half of the Men play a character that is an absolute arsehole because its the cool thing to do. Or how everyone is swearing in rp the entire time "fuck this, fuck that, son of a bitch here", i would prefer more of the curses that were in the books like "Sleen". In the 18 books ive read, i found that Goreans were generally very courteous, very respectful, even when speaking to sworn enemies. Sure, they would think "You son of a bitch, im going to fucking kill your sorry ass the first chance i get", but they would say something more in the lines of: "I look forward to seeing you in battle soon".... Oh, and i hate those bloody bagpipes and trumpets too..

Love this post.  I have always thought that I was a bit of a prude in RP since it mirrors my RL in its lack of profanity.  Even hearing it grates on the nerve when it seems to be the norm.  The other day in a scene my character said "damn" to a slave and it was a big deal to me but it might have gone over as just saying "Tal" in the current environment.  I enjoy the male player who values caste, is humorous rather than sour/dour and can actually string a few sentences together without it being a binding auto emote.  Those players are becoming more and more rare.

Ive had times where i sat in the inn with some free women and , lacking any slaves, decided to  get my own drink with an air of "how hard can it possibly be".. which usually leads to second degree burns. And then there have been the times where my character drank too much, he does not handle copeous amounts of alcohol as well as others, and it always leads to either him picking a fight with the strangelooking fellow that he bumps into (and his two twinbrothers, depending on the amount of alcohol), or him just waggling about the place, leaning on a slave, trying to find a place to settle down.

[Nigaltwaddlesworthiii]

I always thought "In the spirit of the books" came around because people started complaining that you can't rp exactly "by the books". It was a way of correcting it to be more accurate, in their eyes.

Two terms, same meaning.

Yes.. this

We try to be as close as we can without being idiot enough to think we are doing everything exactly right.. If BTB actually meant BTB and not just a label someone uses to put off women fighting.. then I would be more willing to continue to use it.. The bottom line is most BTB sims are just as evolved.. with or without the fighting women and female slaves.. than some of us want to deal with..

Know your role.. read the books.. ffs at least the first 12.. they arent that freakin hard or that freakin long.. learn about the region and practices of the place you are living in.. its fun.. trust me on this.. its fun to role play these differences with others..

I would also add immersion to the list.. its distracting to me when I'm on a sim in the region I'm from and there is buckets of black wine and never ending food.. people dressed in ways they really shouldn't be..free men and women alike.. and just flat out making up dialect cause they think it makes them look 'cool'..or 'authentic'..

I know..I know.. I sound like a nit picking asshole.. thats why they call them pet peeves.. Just don't bother wrapping them in a BTB label, trying to sell them to me is all... is that really too much to ask for?

[Violetta Daviau]

As for the point if BTB means "no femlaws" or more. I think maybe it started with "no femlaws" and "evolved" then into meaning more.

People call themselfes BTB considering they personally play more close to the books than non BTB people, more in the spirit or according to the culture already. Some go to the extend to allow to others only what is written explicitly, others stretch their understanding of Gor.

BTB is not a point in a scale so, it is an intervall of behaviours, expectations and interpretations.


In the sense of the "no femlaws" though meanwhile more and more came, no panthers, no highly experienced fighter groups. BTB Gor became a haven for "chit chat" roleplayers (and I do not mean it negative this time), where weapon based hostility happens anymore on more or less planned events, where danger that can end in domination of others, enslaving, something that is uncomfortable to many, is FTBed. Please do not get me wrong or as a try to drag this into another "no conflict ability" or "panthers get the shaft unfairly" discussion - I know pretty well meanwhile the issues certain roles face, who and how and why caused that. It is another topic, yet the result stays that the "surprise skirmish raids" get more and more blended out, the risk for non-roleplay based domination by others. That is a picture BTB leaves to me at the moment - still: without rating it.

Kaitlin stated two grudges she has as an example, other people have other grudges. It all comes down from definitions of what is Gorean, i.e. BTB, by different people who though, implicitly, want to keep SECONDLIFE gor playable too.

I am thinking that it will not matter if we label the RP heavy, style focused, certain basics upkeeping side of SL Gorean roleplayers "BTB" or "In The Spirit Of The Books", but I do hope that it will maintain the style, keep an eye on exceptions to not be overdone, but also become a tiny bit more tolerant for just  the playability in SL and gain more fairness for all of us earthen players who appear in a minimal fraction compared to a book gorean population and their realism.

"Certain Basics"... we reduce a lot in SL for playability. We demand only 10 words to do some action in combat (e.g. 3* 10 words to be written within 5 minutes of time), the most prominent meaning of BTB is "no femlaws". It is not "no lone slave intersim travel", nothing that could imply L$ spending like certain regulations for avatar setups or clothing (e.g. warrior uniforms and weaponry), nothing that could enforce the spending of time in certain tasks (e.g. money gaining by daily works so one can actually buy that paga) or similar. We do that so the international crew can keep up or so that we do not restrict a prominent representation of Gor players in what they consider fun.

And the roleplay concepts we use evolve as well, or develop, maybe a better wording:
3 months ago, panthers were still allowed to raid most BTB sims, except some few that had been declared cities since years, and the count of BTB claiming Outlaw groups was yet higher.
2 months ago there was a thread about FW NPC'ing their guards, and until that time really NPC'ing was frowned upon and often disregarded, today it becomes more and more common and accepted.
Until like 1 month ago, wearing the GM was like understatement in every sim, now it becomes more and more optional.

We have trends also in talks. Some day the abbreviation "ICA=ICC" is in to use, the next day "BTB" is being questioned in favor of "in the spirit". We had the term "tea party" thrown about, we talk about "conflict RP", sims until recently (few months) were considering that only many raids would make a group/sim grow into a roleplay enabled state, we tried tons back and forth with strickt or flexible rules. It is all very important experiences and advances we make I think.

Now lets just try that the next terms and levels we use and reach, are good, fair, drama freeing, now matter how we establish them. No double standards, the right level of tolerance, playability in mind, Gor in mind.

Once I find a home for a band I will try to help with one role (you know which), and hope you will also support me.

[Bhoamar Landfall]

I am pretty sure the issue of btb and ge divided has been discussed adnauseum. Get used to it it is here ot stay as long as there is a difference of opinion in how to rp gor and what gor is acrually.

Spirit of the books is a bit more tricky. I think that the idea of spirit of the books allows for a broader interpretation w/o going to that wtf extreme. I look at My sim as btb with a sprinkling of spirit of but that is just Me. All someone has to do is read the rules and it is obivous what we are. easy smeasy.