Profanity in Gorean RP

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Junea Demonia]

So you are saying - being kept as a slave, having the status of an animal, not having your freedom, being a sexual playtoy, being beaten at any free person's whim, all those things...do not offend you. But bad language offends you?

I think I might change my name to "Queen of the C**ts" just so I am not offended in future

 

[Eternity Starsmith]

I dont think its Gorean at all and personally if I hear such crud I walk away laughs. I swear myself, but theres places for it, and well, Gor Rp isnt one of them.  I fail to recall bitch/slapper/cocksucker/cunt/slag being used in the books... if anything its GE at its best.

You failed to read my last post . bitch is there in the books.

I just found this while reading:

"Am I a narcissistic little bitch, as Mirus, once my master, might claim? Perhaps. If so, I do not mind. No, I do not mind being beautiful, and delicious, and provocative. That pleases me. I like it. It makes me happy. What is wrong with that?"

Norman, John (2010-07-01). Prize of Gor (Gorean Saga 27) (Kindle Locations 11326-11327). E-Reads, Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

"Yes, she thought. Why, you brazen hussy, she thought. You shameless slut! You narcissistic little bitch! You have truly become a slave girl, haven’t you? Yes! Yes, she thought. It is what you are! You have become a slave girl. You are truly a slave girl! Yes, she thought, on this world I have been put in my place, precisely where I belong, at the feet of powerful men.

Norman, John (2010-07-01). Prize of Gor (Gorean Saga 27) (Kindle Locations 11365-11367). E-Reads, Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

As a sidenote, what catches my attention here is the use of the word "narcissistic" by a slave on Gor. Narcissism is a term associated with a mental disorder in psychology and psychiatry on Earth. Specifically, any disorder listed in the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders by definition causes some form of distress either in the person afflicted by it or in others associated with that person. I was under the impression that psychopathology is pretty much absent in Gor hence there is no sadism and whatnot. So, I wonder how narcissism might figure into Gorean philosophy and particularly, what's it doing in a slave's head?

[Alaria Voss]

@ Eternity.  From memory, the slave in "Prize"  (dammit cant find my copy of the book atm), is a woman of earth.  A woman in her late 50s or 60s if memory serves me well.  She was an educated woman, teacher and bought to Gor from earth.  The syrums were used to make her appear 19 again.  Though one would summize, as a woman who had matured and lived on earth for 60 or so years, her thinking, even after being on Gor for a time, would retain much of her earth conditionings and belief structure.  Just because now she is a slave, she could still well think of herself in terms of narcissim? Afterall she is now a shameless slut of a slave, not the prim and proper lady she was on earth, and she was taking delight in that, she may well consider she has some metal or psychological issue.

Plus Miras had called her that, so he had already put the idea in her head. (Again if memory serves me well) He had spent time on earth, even been a student in her class many years earlier. 

I would doubt that most gorean born slaves might think that way, but for a barbarian, in her position.....not so much of a stretch.

[Vega Legend]

I'd have to dig out the quote, but I don't believe sadism and disease is not absent on Gor, but rare.

Being a more"natural" society, I believe the idea is that it is a less prevalent, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

At the end of the day, while they live on a planet called Gor, they are still human.   And one only has to look throughout history to see examples of this.

...

Here is the quote I found on a website, no time to actually confirm it is from the actual book but it sounds about right from what I remember:

Perhaps it should only be added that the Gorean master, though often strict, is seldom cruel. The girl knows, if she pleases him, her lot will be an easy one. She will almost never encounter sadism or wanton cruelty, for the psychological environment that tends to breed these diseases is largely absent on Gor. this does not mean that she will not expect to be beaten if she disobeys, or fails to please her Master.    Book 2 Page 53 - 54

The words seldom and almost never does not mean it is absent.

[Dyn]

As a sidenote, what catches my attention here is the use of the word "narcissistic" by a slave on Gor. Narcissism is a term associated with a mental disorder in psychology and psychiatry on Earth. Specifically, any disorder listed in the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders by definition causes some form of distress either in the person afflicted by it or in others associated with that person. I was under the impression that psychopathology is pretty much absent in Gor hence there is no sadism and whatnot. So, I wonder how narcissism might figure into Gorean philosophy and particularly, what's it doing in a slave's head?

There must be some level of mental disorder on Gor.

"But why would it, a Kur, venture to such a place?" I asked.
"Perhaps it is insane?" suggested Samos.

"It seems insane," said Samos.
"Yet Kurii are not insane," said I.

Tiny parts of quotes but if there were no mental illness, they wouldn't be considering the captured Kurii as insane.

OP: The words were used in the books so I'd expect to see some of them in RP. It's no different from language in real life. Cursing can be used to emphasize your words. Spoken too loudly or too often, they can also drown them out.

[Eternity Starsmith]

@ Eternity.  From memory, the slave in "Prize"  (dammit cant find my copy of the book atm), is a woman of earth.  A woman in her late 50s or 60s if memory serves me well.  She was an educated woman, teacher and bought to Gor from earth.  The syrums were used to make her appear 19 again.  Though one would summize, as a woman who had matured and lived on earth for 60 or so years, her thinking, even after being on Gor for a time, would retain much of her earth conditionings and belief structure.  Just because now she is a slave, she could still well think of herself in terms of narcissim? Afterall she is now a shameless slut of a slave, not the prim and proper lady she was on earth, and she was taking delight in that, she may well consider she has some metal or psychological issue.

Plus Miras had called her that, so he had already put the idea in her head. (Again if memory serves me well) He had spent time on earth, even been a student in her class many years earlier. 

I would doubt that most gorean born slaves might think that way, but for a barbarian, in her position.....not so much of a stretch.

Yes, you're completely right. Good point.

[Aphris Myoo]

@ Eternity.  From memory, the slave in "Prize"  (dammit cant find my copy of the book atm), is a woman of earth.  A woman in her late 50s or 60s if memory serves me well.  She was an educated woman, teacher and bought to Gor from earth.  The syrums were used to make her appear 19 again.  Though one would summize, as a woman who had matured and lived on earth for 60 or so years, her thinking, even after being on Gor for a time, would retain much of her earth conditionings and belief structure.  Just because now she is a slave, she could still well think of herself in terms of narcissim? Afterall she is now a shameless slut of a slave, not the prim and proper lady she was on earth, and she was taking delight in that, she may well consider she has some metal or psychological issue.

Plus Miras had called her that, so he had already put the idea in her head. (Again if memory serves me well) He had spent time on earth, even been a student in her class many years earlier. 

I would doubt that most gorean born slaves might think that way, but for a barbarian, in her position.....not so much of a stretch.

Mirus did not only visit earth and her classes about feminism, he was of Earth, a Kur agent. Later in the books his lack of skills in handling slaves is mentioned, because he could not see the slave in Ellen. Only after she had been in the hands of Goreans, he saw what he had thrown away. That Mirus spoke of narcism, can very well be that he was that himself, which man has a grudge against a woman who rejected him 40 years earlier. Only a guy who is so full of himself that he sees that as a deadly insult (unlucky there are many such narcist "Masters" in SL Gor)

[Bara Mayako]

IMHO, profanity in Gor only goes too far when people start sounding like Tony Soprano.  I don't believe Norman ever published a work called "Goomar of Gor" yet, and have not yet seen a paga den called the Bada-bing.  Profanity is much more effective as a dramatic device when used sparingly.

[thyri Carver]

I usually swear like a sailor in my RL.  In my SL I actually come up with creative genre specific swear words.

I play a high caste prude of a woman though.  Its going to take a serious act to get her to swear.  She'd have to be angry as a hornet to swear. 

I think sometimes and in certain circumstances just like in RL, swearing can and IS appropriate. 

Though i did hear someone talk about sim meetings one time about the amount of profanity used.  I was joking  with them but I suggested putting out a swear jar before these meetings.  25L per profanity used.  The sim's tier for a year would be covered just in one meeting!

[Xaz Elephas]

IMHO, profanity in Gor only goes too far when people start sounding like Tony Soprano.  I don't believe Norman ever published a work called "Goomar of Gor" yet, and have not yet seen a paga den called the Bada-bing.  Profanity is much more effective as a dramatic device when used sparingly.

I agree with this. With Goreans who valued honor and values of life and society I do not see them as heavey users of profanity.  I have seen some warriors in Gor who cuss like saliors and really IMO it looks very bad and to me has more of a earth mantality then true Gorean.  I do not have a need to use profanity in real... or in games. I am educated and know other words to use.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I agree with this. With Goreans who valued honor and values of life and society I do not see them as heavey users of profanity.  I have seen some warriors in Gor who cuss like saliors and really IMO it looks very bad and to me has more of a earth mantality then true Gorean.  I do not have a need to use profanity in real... or in games. I am educated and know other words to use.

There is nothing dishonorable about swearing particularly using the gorean definition of honor.  It is dependent on many things such as situation, station and gender.  There are plenty of references to cursing from men of all caste, women, and even slaves if the situation warranted it.  While sparring and in the tavern a Warrior might let them fly.  Even low caste women had to be trained not to speak as vulgar when they became slaves.  I took the OP to mean the overuse of profanity for no reason at all like "How the fuck are you today asshole" spoken to anyone and everyone as a common greeting with similar subsequent conversation.

After a few English sentences or a page or so in one of my father’s books, I would be at home again in my native tongue, but the shift was there, and necessary. I was fluent in Gorean. Once, when struck by the Older Tarl, I had cursed in Gorean, and he had laughed. (Tarnsman of Gor)

The men shouted.  Women cursed, and screamed their hatred of the panther girls. Children cried out and pelted them with pebbles.(Captive of Gor)

They were controlled by a bargeman, with a long whipping stick, who was ensconced in a leather basket, part of the harness, slung between the two animals. He would also shout at them commands, interspersed with florid Gorean profanity, and, slowly, not undelicately, they responded to his cries. The barge grated against the pier. (Captive of Gor)

The helmsmen, at their steering oars, shouting and cursing, brought the barge to its mooring. There was a slight shock as the heavy, wet, rolled hides tied at the back of the barge struck the pier. (Captive of Gor)

Ellen had heard an angry cry from the man above her, and words in Gorean she did not recognize, words that had certainly never been taught to her, a slave girl. She had no doubt that the man was cursing, and richly, the failure of his strike. (Prize of Gor)

[Elle Couerblanc]

The use of profanity I see as a great way to build your character. Do you want them viewed as uncouth and crass? Cuss like a sailor. Refined and elegant? etc etc. What is particular fun is when people develop a "public" character and a "private" one. Nothing funnier than an uppity free woman in public cussing like a sailor behind closed doors.

Besides, just because it's not every other word in the book doesn't mean it's not used. For example, I can't recall the book but when Norman discussed the Peasant Woman characteristics he talked about how when enslaved a peasant woman often had to be trained to no longer use the foul language she was used to using.

Edited to add:  Sometimes when low-caste women are enslaved they must be taught to be more ladylike, as their masters will have that of them. Their mouths, for example, may be washed out with soap, literally. That is a symbolic, but surely unpleasant, lesson they are not likely to forget. And it may be repeated as often as the master pleases. Most upper-caste women, whereas they might be smug, haughty or cruel, are not vulgar, regarding vulgar language, allusions, gestures, and such as being incompatible with the dignity of their caste. This is not to deny that an upper-caste woman, say, recently enslaved, or any slave girl, for that matter, may not be commanded upon occasion to use the most vulgar language conceivable, in referring to herself, or in begging for use, and such.
Prize of Gor   Book 27   Page 233

In my eyes, Norman is alluding to the use of foul language on Gor even though as a writer he chooses not to use them often.

[Bara Mayako]

In my eyes, Norman is alluding to the use of foul language on Gor even though as a writer he chooses not to use them often.

I wonder, though, how he imagined they sounded.  Do you think he was thinking of "ghetto gangstas" or "made guys"?

[Syndel Daviau]

I -love- cussing, swearing, lewd language in roleplay and use it often. It's completely realistic.

[Mel Fitzcarraldo]

She really does! I can vouch for that!