Men in Black

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Blade Snowdrop]

No, No and Still no.  Assassins are NOT the Hand of justice, They are one thing and one think only, Hired killers.  You pay them and they kill for you, It's not about justice, it's not about glory, it's about getting paid to kill.  You can flower it up all you want, saying you are doing noble work, but you are equally going to take the contract of a man who wants to kill another so he can steal his farmland as to kill for the sake of Justice.  Don't confuse the OOC habit of trying to avoid OOC Drama with the true purpose of your caste.  Get pain to kill... Nuff said.

Ok everyone is getting confused by the term "Justice of Gor" WHAT THEY MEAN is no one is above the dagger of a Killer, once the contract starts the assassin cant be bribed to stop, he wont tire and never be sweyed. Thus the justice of gor reference is refering to the fact that we WILL kill anyone.

[Randall Reich]

Assassins absolutely can be the bringers of justice.  But it all depends on who is hiring us.  We don't make those decisions ourselves.

[Delaynie Barbosa]

Assassins are not Outlaws.  Outlaws are criminals, those outside the Caste System.  We have a Caste, and codes, we just do not take homestones.  Assassins are honorable in that we kill our marks quickly, and do not torture them or prolong their suffering.  We keep our contracts and follow them to the letter.  We do not betray the confidence of our clients.  We are men of our word.  Granted we kill for money and are hated and feared for it, but we are also respected. 

Instruments of justice?  Definitely.  Ask Hup the Fool about that.  We are more like the SAS or Navy Seals than a gang of criminals and thugs.

Outlaws outside the caste system you say. When Ko-Ro-Ba was destroyed, Tarl had arrived on Gor and was given the garmets and tools of his caste, minus the city insignia. He didn't understand why no city until he found Ko-Ro-Ba destroyed. He had no home stone, yet still had caste. So, it appears that outlaws are outlaws not because they are casteless, it's because they have no home stone. Outlaws can be casteless (they are running from society after all), but the definitive mark of an outlaw seems to be the lack of home stone, which assassins don't claim. Does that not make an assassin an outlaw?

However, assassins are not truly outlaws, as is being discussed, because they have place in and represent an important part of Gorean society. Perhaps the question I meant to ask was not whether assassins were outlaws, but rather "What place do assassins, who are men without homestones, have in Gorean society?" As has already been discussed they represent justice when justice can't otherwise be served. They are the taking of the law into one's owns hands. Rogue sheriffs in a way. That seems a better comparison to me then outlaws. What do you think?

[Frang01]

Instruments of justice?  Definitely.  Ask Hup the Fool about that.  We are more like the SAS or Navy Seals than a gang of criminals and thugs.

Are you serious?

An assassin kills for money and you some how think that puts them on the same level of highly trained military personnel? Had you said your computer generated character role-plays more like that of a real life member of the special forces that had left the service and turned mercenary, then I might vaguely agree.

I look upon the role of the assassin as more aligned with a mafia hit man.

Now pledge to a home stone and go on missions to assassinate the head of an enemy city or head of of an opposing caste and not take coin for it? Then you might be able to draw some comparison to how your RP is like a member of the special forces.

And revenge is NEVER justice. Hiring someone to killl another for personal reasons is nothing more than revenge.

But we are way off the path of the OP. Seeing someone dressed from head to toe in black does not convince me they are RPing the role of an assassin. To me they are yet another person to RP with. Place the mark on your forehead  to show you are "at work" and I'll step aside and let you go about your business. Otherwise, you're just another person to interact and maybe share a drink with.

[Nigaltwaddlesworthiii]

Think what you want to think.. but yes .. they are "bringers of justice".. as I stated pretty clearly in my earlier post... it just depends on what your personal idea of justice is that day..

If they were nothing but killers for hire..then they are murderers.. Murderers are outlaws on Gor and could be arrested and executed for the crime.. So answer me this please.. why were assassins allowed to do their business unmolested by the law if there were nothing but murderers?..

The man who hires the assassin for revenge IS seeking "justice" for his situation.. Its personal to HIM.. Put it in earth American terms and no.. you wouldn't equate it with justice by the law.. but I bet if someone hurt you or someone you loved you would want revenge..and would see it as "justice"

Until you can answer why they are allowed to ply their trade at all?.. Then you can cry "no no no no" all you wish to.. it will not make you right..

Edit to remove the @Raymond..since a few others have joined the argument here.. and I also added another thought..

[Delaynie Barbosa]

Instruments of justice?  Definitely.  Ask Hup the Fool about that.  We are more like the SAS or Navy Seals than a gang of criminals and thugs.

Are you serious?

An assassin kills for money and you some how think that puts them on the same level of highly trained military personnel? Had you said your computer generated character role-plays more like that of a real life member of the special forces that had left the service and turned mercenary, then I might vaguely agree.

I look upon the role of the assassin as more aligned with a mafia hit man.

Now pledge to a home stone and go on missions to assassinate the head of an enemy city or head of of an opposing caste and not take coin for it? Then you might be able to draw some comparison to how your RP is like a member of the special forces.

And revenge is NEVER justice. Hiring someone to killl another for personal reasons is nothing more than revenge.

But we are way off the path of the OP. Seeing someone dressed from head to toe in black does not convince me they are RPing the role of an assassin. To me they are yet another person to RP with. Place the mark on your forehead  to show you are "at work" and I'll step aside and let you go about your business. Otherwise, you're just another person to interact and maybe share a drink with.

I think this is what we're trying to figure out. And at this point I have to agree that assassins are bringers of justice. Justice is not always served by the law. Social and legal injustice leads to all sorts of things from personal revenge, murder, gang violence, even belief in the afterlife.  Anytime society isn't serving the needs of individuals, humans will find a way to make sense and find a place of their situations. Assassins on Gor provide a route for justice in an unjust world. When things aren't fair or you feel you are owed a serious debt, you can hire someone to make it right for you, will of the Priest Kings be damned.

[Frang01]

Think what you want to think.. but yes .. they are "bringers of justice".. as I stated pretty clearly in my earlier post... it just depends on what your personal idea of justice is that day..

If they were nothing but killers for hire..then they are murderers.. Murderers are outlaws on Gor and could be arrested and executed for the crime.. So answer me this please.. why were assassins allowed to do their business unmolested by the law if there were nothing but murderers?..

The man who hires the assassin for revenge IS seeking "justice" for his situation.. Its personal to HIM.. Put it in earth American terms and no.. you wouldn't equate it with justice by the law.. but I bet if someone hurt you or someone you loved you would want revenge..and would see it as "justice"

Until you can answer why they are allowed to ply their trade at all?.. Then you can cry "no no no no" all you wish to.. it will not make you right..

Edit to remove the @Raymond..since a few others have joined the argument here.. and I also added another thought..

Then we will have to agree to disagree on the term justice versus revenge. I will concede the fact that in the mind of the person laying down coin to have someone else killed, this is justice but in my mind it's revenge for being wronged.

As the question of being allowed to apply their trade at all, I'll answer with another question. Killer walks into a city, guards stand aside to not interfere, killer fulfills his assignment but the kill is observed by a member of the city guard. Does the guard then shrug and call for slaves to clean up the mess or does the guard give chase in an effort to subdue the killer?


JN is full of paradoxes but he seems to be a master of introducing control chaos.

But again my apologies to the OP as this continues to spiral off topic and might be better served in a separate thread.

[Carter Ebbage]

Here is a suggestion...

Romanticising the role like it was some Avenging Angel..... references to the SAS etc.. is just going to attract the kewl kids and the wannabees who would wish to emulate their version of Blade the Vampire Slayer in GOR without actually being a Black Caste.. hence the occassional Black Garbed Bringer of Death you see..complete with Scythe on his back.

I totally agree with the background theme of the Caste of Assasins and the hidden behavioural drivers of an Assassin.. but they are very subtle and contained within the mystery of the caste and its interaction with each other.

Playing the role of an Assassin.. must be very hard to simply portray a man on the edge of gorean society, no friends, loyalties who kills without question for gold and by definition would be avoided by all decent and self respecting citizens like the plague.

So, to the BC community.... just the like SAS do... dont self publicise that you are the elite of GOR and can kill anybody so swiftly they have been dead for 5 minutes before the mark actually realises their head is on the floor.

To everybody else... treat the Assasins as the murderous sleens they are  and anybody dressed in Ninja Black should be shunned as possiblly weird looking Assassins.. they will soon the get message and revert to a more appropriate style of dress if they dont want to stand alone in a sim.

Its a responsiblity on all sides of the equation to ensure the BC are dressed, known, recognised and treated as the caste they are.

[Gnookie Hubbenfluff]

Agreed Carter. 

It's like I said previously - First knowledge vs second knowledge.

It's much easier if everyone thinks the Black Caste is a bunch of shitbags worthy of nothing but their fear and contempt.

Debates on Justice may as well be left for Ubars and Magistrates (and for Master Assassins and trainees).

[Randall Reich]

OK we are off track a bit here, but let me just say this.  Assaassins as bringers of justice in the sense of us being white knights and saviors?  No.  We are in it for the money.  We are loyal to ourselves, to the contract and to the gold.  The Assassin's blade can be a tool for justice depending on who hires us and for what purpose.  It's just business to us.  The SAS or Navy Seals comparison is simply to demonstrate our skill level, not to say we are like the good guy army of Gor. 

I like the Mafia comparison although the Mafia are criminals and Assassins are not.  Gorean law states that they can exist and their codes determine their behavior.

Back on topic though.  I won't say where I saw this, but in the course of one afternoon I saw five FM at a very large BTB city.  Two warriors, one Merchant and two unknowns.

The first unknown was an unarmed FM dressed head to toe in black leather with only a small patch of red on the vest.  To be honest he looked more at home on a BDSM sim than a Gorean one.  We greeted him with suspicion and asked if he was a Killer.  He ended the conversation and hightailed it off sim. 

The second unknown FM was in brown and white.  No issues there.

The merchant was dressed head to toe in black leather, with an open shirt, pants and boots, all black, save for a sash of white and gold around his waist.  I walked away from that conversation figuring it would end badly.

The first warrior was a Torvie dressed head to toe in all black leather save for a measly red arm band.  If you looked at him from the side the arm band was not on you would swear he was in full black. 

The second warrior was in half black half red, black pants with a red tunic.  Fine, passable.

This is a microcosm of one afternoon.  Men wearing black in SL Gor is really out of control.  I am not sure why.  There is quite a bit of cool looking non black clothing out there.  It would help to sustain the illusion if people would dress more authentically, and stop wearing things that make no sense, I guess that is the message.

[Xaz Elephas]

 Assassins were hired by Goreans who could afford them to right a wrong. To bring them justice. Now with that said if you think like a Gorean within the gorean society you believe that. If you think like a rl being you may not believe that. With the confinds of the gorean books though that is excatly what Assassins were hired for.   IC as an Assassin I belive that. OOC I have to ask the client why the hire in IMs to make sure it IS a IC reason and not because OOC he/she is pissed at someone else and wants to use me as a toll in there bitch feast.

Nuff said.


Also 100% yes to what Carter posted.

[Dyn]

Back on topic though.  I won't say where I saw this, but in the course of one afternoon I saw five FM at a very large BTB city.  Two warriors, one Merchant and two unknowns.

The first unknown was an unarmed FM dressed head to toe in black leather with only a small patch of red on the vest.  To be honest he looked more at home on a BDSM sim than a Gorean one.  We greeted him with suspicion and asked if he was a Killer.  He ended the conversation and hightailed it off sim. 

The second unknown FM was in brown and white.  No issues there.

The merchant was dressed head to toe in black leather, with an open shirt, pants and boots, all black, save for a sash of white and gold around his waist.  I walked away from that conversation figuring it would end badly.

The first warrior was a Torvie dressed head to toe in all black leather save for a measly red arm band.  If you looked at him from the side the arm band was not on you would swear he was in full black. 

The second warrior was in half black half red, black pants with a red tunic.  Fine, passable.

This is a microcosm of one afternoon.  Men wearing black in SL Gor is really out of control.  I am not sure why.  There is quite a bit of cool looking non black clothing out there.  It would help to sustain the illusion if people would dress more authentically, and stop wearing things that make no sense, I guess that is the message.

People wear all black because it's a strong, powerful color. The psychology of it is akin to why restaurants use red and yellow as their color schemes or why some prisons use pink paint on the walls or in the prisoners uniforms. Plus, there's the stigma that the good guys wear white and the bad guys wear black. Darth Vader wouldn't be as scary and powerful if he wore pink.



Black's also an easy color to wear. You don't have to worry about matching other colors. Your boots can be poorly adjusted since your pants blend in with them and nobody can tell that half of your calf is sticking out.

Any attempt to rid Gor completely of the black clothing fad is going to be in vain. You might find it less frustrating if you only concentrate on the men in all black, as opposed to the men in half black, or black with an accent color.

[ramond lax]

Darth Vader wouldn't be as scary and powerful if he wore pink.

I don't Know... I find that Pretty scary

[Ricari Resident]

I have to derail a little, just a tiny bit. A Dalek in any color, is terrifying.



A Vader in pink, is disturbing, and still fear inducing if you know what he can do. The black to me is a sign of the BC, to many it is, because they Know what the BC can do. Those who haven't met them, been around them, etc, don't know. And so they need learn.

[Gnookie Hubbenfluff]

EXTERMINATE! (that awful hairdo)  EXTERMINATE! (your horrid interior designer) 
EXTERMINATE! (those ghastly shoes because right now there is a hooker in jersey goin,"wheah mah boots at?")