Death Situation and Limits

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Carter Ebbage]

We recently had a warrior killed in Treve.. he is now debating with himself the implications of that death on the RP that is developing due to this event.. if he comes back tomorrow the RP is wasted.. if he kills off his character.. he wastes money, his position, his role in the Treve city etc etc

If this had been a silly....run in and kill him.. I would have advised him to go with 24 hours..resurrect and we carry on

But its not that situation with him and this event


I also expect to be killed very soon, unless I can be really clever and outwit the 2 black caste after me. They have been after me for 2-3 weeks, undertaken some amazing RP to track me down etc... is it really fair I take a 24 hour death or should I go longer and let the RP of my death develop for a few days and possibly the impact of losing the Ubar of Treve will  create RP storylines we hadnt considered

What I cant do is a permanent death... to me that is stooooopid.. forget the OOC implications of running a sim and  owning a sim all tied to the name of Carter Ebbage and also 3 years of an inventory i cant transfer... but also the impact on others of losing Carter the master, Carter the power crazed and slightly paranoid warrior completely changes the RP style and situation in Treve.

So.. what is the solution for this warrior and myself

1. take a 24 hour death
2. take a death period until we know the RP implications are now dead and done
3. delete our accounts and move on to another sim
4. Any other suggestion

[colin Tuck]

If it as like you said been a good role play and not just a dash in and shoot me up, I will go with option 2 stay dead untill any role play as finished to give all the slaves and free women time to morn you and the men time to track down who did it. But there would be no way I could kill my avi off like you say to expensive. You can stil log on and come to your beloved city just come ooc and change your meter tag to say ghost of whoever you are and then you can see all the people crying over their sad loss, or join in the celerbrations depending how liked you are lol.

just my thought over to everybody else

colin

[Liliana Aluveaux]

I've been torn on this too. But there are ways to handle the said death.

1. Death was faked. You've been recouping from wounds in a hidden place in the city for the obligitory 24 hours.

2. You do your time with the death clock and while in Asea's care before burial, there is a spark of life. (Hey why not? Like a coma or something... Or when you are on the funeral pyre, you suddenly wake up. A sure way to make everyone need a diaper. 'Holy Crap!')

3. Hang out oocly until the immediate rp is over with. This involves conversing OOCly and deciding on a set time limit.

I agree. Many of us have spent way too much money on our avatars. It never crossed my mind if I was perma-killed that I would have to make a new av. Surely the problem would be solved by typing /12meter label New Character  or something?

But then again in my two years I have only died once. When that character died, I just went about my business creating a new one for this av. If someone recognized me, I'd say something in character such as 'you must have me confused with someone else...' Then I'd IM them and explain that I am a new av.

For those who do not wish to lose their positions... chose one of the 3 choices I've laid out for you.

Happy rping!

[Xaz Elephas]

Problem with an Assassins kill is we are very detailed in delivering a death, cutting the throat, the arteries.  Also we have a contract to a client to think about.  However, as an Assassin personally I would not mind it if a mark Imed me and asked if they could rp hanging onto life by a thread, being in a coma, near death for awhile if the marks situation was like yours Carter, sim owner, ect ect. Doesn't hurt to ask the assassin's hunting you if that would be alright to play out. Then Treve could hang on pins and needles if you pull though or not.

Or, you as the Ubar became aware of the assassins and some poor soul agreed to play your double, perhaps you paid his estate a large sum of gold so his heirs would be set for life. The Green's did an amazing plastic surgery job to make the decoy look just like you. The Assassins successfully kill this decoy.  Treve even holds a service and grives over the loss... only to discover the Ubar Carter is alive and well and it was a decoy.


As for the warrior... well most people I have killed have taken the death, come back a few days later with memory loss... 

I myself always work with the people I kill when they Im me and ask what they should do now, I offer them suggestions. I do not believe in perma-death as per stated here they cost of most av is around 15,000l.  I get my kills validated by admins then I am off and make it a point not to go back to the sim for at least a month. What the mark does is always fine by me.

[Liliana Aluveaux]

The great thing about rp is there ARE so many options around the death. I like your idea Xaz.

[Carter Ebbage]

Or, you as the Ubar became aware of the assassins and some poor soul agreed to play your double, perhaps you paid his estate a large sum of gold so his heirs would be set for life.

  ooh that has got me thinking.. a double.. a man identical to me in every way.. nothing to do with this post,  but an idea I will think about to trick the BC.. trust a killer to outwit another killer 

[Carin McBride]

I like Xaz' ideas it gives All a chance to continue there storyline with only with a few black areas, I dont know why anyone would think a rp kill should be permanent, it makes no sense to me at all and in my 2 years on Gor I have only met one doing it.

[Cheyenne McAlpine]

Or, you as the Ubar became aware of the assassins and some poor soul agreed to play your double, perhaps you paid his estate a large sum of gold so his heirs would be set for life.

  ooh that has got me thinking.. a double.. a man identical to me in every way.. nothing to do with this post,  but an idea I will think about to trick the BC.. trust a killer to outwit another killer 

*eyes carter and chuckles, barely managing not to say it*

[Wanita Slade]

I also agree with Xaz's recommendations. It is awfully stupid to totally close the account of an avatar based on a game.

Nothing like speaking with "death" itself to work out possible solutions to a problem.

[Michelline Raymond]

Ok, I do perma death in RP. With perma death, it is the CHARACTER who dies, not the account. We shouldn't be tag reading in RP so if someone 'recognizes you' they read your tag. I killed a character of mine in a suicide, for the tag/meter readers and profile whores, I put "New character, you will not know me".

Many people have in their limits "3 day cap max". A collar is supposed to cancel your past. In the books, it wasn't a 3 day limit when a girl was caught or a FW enslaved. After the 3 days, they go back to who they were before, which on Gor, would be unrealistic. Me, I play no limits. If I get capped (which I have been before) I try to find a valid way to escape (bribed a guard with a bag of RP salt.) before being collared. If I am collared, well, I remain so until I can seduce some poor unsuspecting Master into releasing me (only a fool would release a slave)

This choice of RP is mine and if you choose to RP 1 day, 3 day, whatever time limit death, that is your choice. No one can force you to delete your account.

The idea Xaz had about a body double is good...I saw something like this on CSI:Miami once. Turned out the dead husband had a body double for social appearances so the main could be more focused on his work. Poor guy married 1 of triplets who plotted the murder.

I have also used an alt account to be Rosa undercover instead of changing my title and appearance, cuz again, people tag read or assume you tag read when you outsmart them.

If you don't wanna perma die, don't. Very few do.
If you feel a 24 hour death is too soon, then wait a few days and come back.

Half the story lines in Treve are very confusing and I don't really bother getting involved in them. We don't have trials for crimes, instead it's collar the FW right away or have the man sit in a cell for 2 weeks. Alot of the times, and this one now included, it's "Ok, even though it didn't happen....we'll just say it did and move on." Like with the BC trials that again, never happened and the BC just drinks it up in Minus untouched.

Where is the Home Stone? In another thread Chey says she told Variance about the info she'd gotten from Cor, yet nothing has been done. So, what are new citizens pledging to since the Home Stone is not there?

With the death of Storm, I have a few questions:
Is Ari gonna be in a perm collar if Storm is perma dead? Or was this an OOC decision for her to be collared to get some FW furring in then she'll be released?
Why has there been no warrant issued for Kronas?
Why hasn't a search party been formed to hunt him down?
Why hasn't Teslit been informed about this since he'd attacked them as well?
Are all FW just gonna be collared on a whim without the protection of the laws?

OOC - what you wanna do with your character, you do, I don't care.
IC - We are not supposed to have mun knowledge and will react IC like we should and right now, IC, some FW are scared and upset at the current treatment of FW since the laws/rules are being ignored due to OOC decisions.


...and maybe this will help some people understand why I'm a bitch and protective of some things in RP. Cuz I am a no limits player and everything that happens, remains (except in set storylines, like the war, where we were going to Teslit as injured, not dead). BTW Rosa does have a small scar on her neck from Zak's dagger.


Personally though....even though IC I hate the bastid, Storm/Chaos is a good character and RPer and plays a Gorean man VERY well. He's rough and not afraid to stand up to a FW or punish a slave. He isn't lead around Gor by his pants and doesn't make idle threats of collaring a FW all because she challenged his manhood or insulted him. It would be a shame to lose someone like that.

[Braveheart Baily]

There have been some great sentiments put forward in the posts above regarding this issue.
I, like most above have purported like to keep the role play real and if killed it would have to be for a damn good reason. Remember goreans did not kill lightly and where certainly not sadistical.
Like Xas said assasins are very meticulous in how they plan and execute their killings so I think it would have to a hell of a good plan to get yourself out of that situation alive.
I think like most people who role play here they want to keep it real so that their character can develop as well as develop the role play of others around them because for sure that is what makes a good and thriving community.

There is absolutely no way i would kill off my avatar and start a new one because of someone elses actions upon me. Like others have said a lot of time and money has gone into their avatar which can not be transfered, so that would be ridiculous.
I would however go with the role play of being killed if the story merrited it and the person had taken time and proven their reasons for doing so. However Im not sure if i would reinvent myself on another Sim as hell I like you guys too much so you would still have to put up with me
..I would however come back as a relation of Braveheart and make it my soul mission to revenge his blood

[Wanita Slade]

Thanks for the clarification on how you play perma death. I know some folks actually close their account but to each his/her own. With regards to putting "New character" in your meter label... all well and good but I'm sure it also comes with its myriad of confusion where one has to on occasions stress with those they interract in IMs about it. Nonetheless it is inevitable and we just have to take it on the chin and move on.

3 day capture limits, well it is rather strange but again it is something that is worked out between captive and captor. To avoid getting into a long drawn battle of angst I have heard of captors making the escape on said day convenient; window of opportunity is presented and the captive is able to rp their escape but still have to go along with the rp that ensues as a result of making their way back home.

Gor is as unrealistic as Second Life is as it is based on a series of fantasy books and the virtual game is nothing more than a fantasy world that provides a safe platform for all to stretch their imagination.

I understand there are people out there that are willing to go with the flow of things and enjoy the challenges that are thrown at them. Fantastic! I say but not all are inclined to that mindset.

A lot of unresolved issues in Treve are simply based on the fact that the relevant parties are not able to be online simultaneously unfortunately.

With what happened with Ari, I would like to say that I have been put in a similar position. Many will remember and yes it was a very tense situation as it drew on the contrast of emotions from citizens with regards to the mental health of the Ubar. It was interesting to see how a gradual but discreet divide amongst the citizens was developing. I ensured that even though I was locked away and void of light, the little interraction that I had through curious visitors to concerned friends, they went away with a nagging doubt to the capabilities of our Ubar. Simply put, I was instigating a mutiny.

Similiar concerns were raised and well I just leave this quote to enlighten all.

"The High Castes in a given City," said my father, "elect an administrator and council for stated terms.  In times of crisis, a war chief, or Ubar, is named, who rules without check and by decree until, in his judgment, the crisis is passed."

"In his judgment?" I asked skeptically.

"Normally the office is surrendered after the passing of the crisis," said my father.  "It is part of the Warrior's Code."

---Tarnsman of Gor, 3:42

[Carter Ebbage]

A lot of unresolved issues in Treve are simply based on the fact that the relevant parties are not able to be online simultaneously unfortunately.

With what happened with Ari, I would like to say that I have been put in a similar position. Many will remember and yes it was a very tense situation as it drew on the contrast of emotions from citizens with regards to the mental health of the Ubar. It was interesting to see how a gradual but discreet divide amongst the citizens was developing. I ensured that even though I was locked away and void of light, the little interraction that I had through curious visitors to concerned friends, they went away with a nagging doubt to the capabilities of our Ubar. Simply put, I was instigating a mutiny.

Similiar concerns were raised and well I just leave this quote to enlighten all.

"The High Castes in a given City," said my father, "elect an administrator and council for stated terms.  In times of crisis, a war chief, or Ubar, is named, who rules without check and by decree until, in his judgment, the crisis is passed."

"In his judgment?" I asked skeptically.

"Normally the office is surrendered after the passing of the crisis," said my father.  "It is part of the Warrior's Code."

---Tarnsman of Gor, 3:42

What Nita says

The homestone issue has halted slightly due to the person who has it, not being around due to RL issues.. but ask senna, nettle and many others who have spent hours RPing searching it for secretly in the sewers and caves if its a dead issue.

Yes the officers of the red caste have been told to get Kronus for his act.. though formal notices

Yes I arrested Ari for her behaviour and had put her in a 5 day collar as a punishment.. Ubars privelege as supreme ruler as Nita pointed out.. I live with the consequences for not following what some may see as a unjust process... btw before people get OOC upset, Ari is happy with this and our Magistrate was informed of the action and background.. so up to him if he wishes to make this an official trial.

Rp themes ebb and flow in Treve, which is great, with 165 people all developing their own themes its impossible to keep up with them all....hence.. time and time and time again I suggest to people to post their RP themes so others can get involved.

Recognising that despite notice after notice after notice for people to check this web site to be kept informed of RP, the Treve Tribune is being created based on the input of citizens and slaves to keep people informed of things.. it again will depend on the people's willingness and desire to support others in knowing what is going on and to get involved.

It will be interesting to see if those who complain actually contribute and post or submit anything to the web site or the Treve Tribune.

And back to the death issue.. some good ideas about how to deal with the situation.. and with regard to my own personl impending assination...all I need now is an incredibly attractive, charming, intelligent man who looks like me and is willing to die on my behalf.. any volunteers ?

[Michelline Raymond]

Yes I arrested Ari for her behaviour and had put her in a 5 day collar as a punishment.. Ubars privelege as supreme ruler as Nita pointed out.. I live with the consequences for not following what some may see as a unjust process... btw before people get OOC upset, Ari is happy with this and our Magistrate was informed of the action and background.. so up to him if he wishes to make this an official trial.

And back to the death issue.. some good ideas about how to deal with the situation.. and with regard to my own personl impending assination...all I need now is an incredibly attractive, charming, intelligent man who looks like me and is willing to die on my behalf.. any volunteers ?

I'm not OOC upset at all..again, her choice to pursue the storyline. It was the message IC it was sending that had some upset and confused. As if an accused had no right to stand before the Ubar/Magistrate/High Council to plead their case. A free does have that right, even a woman.

The death issue and a volunteer? *looks around* Would Jackson pass as a clone? *runs and hides back in the mountains after that suggestion*

...and yes, I do plan on taking action in regards to things in my own RP that might shock some. I'm currently gathering evidence (logs IC) and preparing Writs...I'm very particular and anal in my paperwork, like a good lil scribe should be.

[James Bluebird]

Yes I arrested Ari for her behaviour and had put her in a 5 day collar as a punishment

sooo... this means if i get in trouble ICly, i shouldn't be punished by her?? hehe

as for the deaths, i would not be perm killed.. i will follow the rules and continue on with my Gorean life as if it did not happen.. if that will not suit, i MIGHT even change my RP name to something else, but i would lose too much IC for this..