FW from Earth?

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February 2012

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[serene mistwood]

I think if we look at the overall theme and philosophy of Gor, then it IS common knowledge that women are, were and never will be stronger than men in combat.  Of course a few Free Women in the books used the element of surprise and ingenuity to overcome men, but this wasn't through strength alone which is Moons point. 

Gorean males physical attributes are not the same as the males of earth.  They are HUGE.  Panthers were not some kind of Amazonian warrior princesses or a modern day Lara Croft.. .. they are runaway slaves and Freewomen that live away from cities and the male dominated society they are supposed to despise so much.  Yes, they become arrogant, brave, stronger.. but stronger than a male. No.

We all know we can find a few quotes to justify almost anything we do on Gor and pretend its btb,  but the overall framework and running philosophy justifies Moons point.  There were NO female
warriors on Gor.  No woman is a match for any man.  This is the central tenet of Normans Gor.

To bring out a few quotes saying otherwise is a moot point.  If you bring out the scales and weigh
the evidence on both sides, the scales will thud pretty quickly to the side of the men.  Boasts of such
skill in combat such at by Tarna were just that... boasts.  Not facts.  Tarl toyed with her in the duel  and she was certainly no match in skill or strength. 

Lets not forget Verna was only freed once captured to deprive Marlenus of his prize... like the other strong woman Tarna used by the Salt Ubar, she was still simply used as a tool by men.  Men have more than the ingenuity and craftiness of even the most scheming woman, as well as the skill and strength.

 This type of thing leads eventually both to the demasculinization of men and the defeminization of females, a perversion of nature disapproved of generally, correctly or incorrectly, by Goreans.  (Mercenaries of Gor - Book 21 - Page 56)

ps - Not an "I'm right, you are wrong either"- as with all my posts -  just my opinion of how i see Gor  )

[Subtle Boa]

Each time a woman of Earth was brought here it was for a specific purpose, either by the Priest-Kings or by the Kurii.  Usually they were made slaves after their job was done.  In the case of Elizabeth, who was sent as a messenger to the Wagon People, Tarl fell in love with her and freed her, but she was enslaved again in the end.   The tatrix was a lookalike, brought to fool the people of Torcadino, I believe.

Bugger, hadn't got that far yet! Currently she is missing from the ruins of Kamchaks wagon! Spoiler warnings required.

[Moon Firegrave]

You have a way with words.
Thank you, that is the point I was attempting to make.

[Callista Vaughan]

Valid viewpoints, and well presented as well. Believe it or not, I'm actually on your side of things when it comes to how Gor should be interpreted as a whole. I enjoy a good debate and presenting the less desirable viewpoint.

Still, I think we'll have to respectfully disagree about the definition of common knowledge. After all, If women never bested men in combat on Gor, there would be no forest girls left.

((Apologies to Subtle for the spoiler    and to the OP for derailing!))

[Kate Hellmann]

Valid viewpoints, and well presented as well. Believe it or not, I'm actually on your side of things when it comes to how Gor should be interpreted as a whole. I enjoy a good debate and presenting the less desirable viewpoint.

Still, I think we'll have to respectfully disagree about the definition of common knowledge. After all, If women never bested men in combat on Gor, there would be no forest girls left.

((Apologies to Subtle for the spoiler    and to the OP for derailing!))

Don't worry about derailing, I've been following the thread and been amused about how its been going. I never really thought it cause such a discussion. Its interesting reading everyone's viewpoints, especially since I haven't read the books. (Don't worry about spoilers for me. I'll probably have forgotten them by the time I eventually get to reading the books.)

[consuelo albanese]

Bah... you are forgetting the legalities.

When one becomes a slave their past is erased, they have a new beginning as a slave.  Forget that they were once of Ar, or of Ko-Ro-Ba, or of Earth.  They are now Slave.  [ Pillar 1 ]

Should a Free Man be so foolish as to fall in love with his slave and free her, she is now a Free Woman.  Remember, her past having beens erased, her origin means nothing.

If a Free Woman companions a Free Man she (usually) enters his caste as a Free Woman.  Obviously, if she did not have a caste of her own she would have no reason to NOT enter his.  [ pillar 2 ]

Is it illogical to assume that once Companioned, a Free Woman would swear to her Companion's Homestone?  I'm sure it happened between cities as part of a political joining.  [ pillar 3 ]

The best example is the girl in "Assassin", Virginia Kent, which has nothing to do with Tarl whatsoever.  Relius was a Red Caste Gorean Free man, ergo, it did happen.

[Ashoka Mosely]

In this game, there are no absolutes, just, different ways of looking at things and perspectives.

The books contradict themselves all over the shop anyways though I reckon BTBers try to keep within the spirit
of the books as best as we can.

How your character shapes out, well, depends on how she / he RPs and gets RPed in this crazy world of SL Gor.

[Anarch Allegiere]

Merchant law prescribes that a person origining from Earth can be legally enslaved at any time, even by those that share the same Home-Stone. As happened to "Lady Elicia of Ar" (aka "Elicia Nevins of Earth") in Slave-girl of Gor if I recall correctly.

^ Most overlooked universal law by all those that make their characters origin from Earth.

Edit:
Looked up the quote to support it:

Secondly, though you speak of yourself as the Lady Elicia of Ar, of Six Towers, you are, in actuality, Miss Elicia Nevins of the planet Earth. You are an Earth girl and thus stand within a general permission of enslavement, fair beauty quarry to any Gorean male whatsoever.”
Slave Girl of Gor, Page 394

Excerpt from a Merchant Law summary NC:
"Merchant Law defines permissions of enslavement, at least two of which are making one a slave when not sharing a Home Stone and any Earth person."


Edit2:
Ah rats someone already brought it up at the beginning of the thread.

Here enjoy a random other insight then - Belled Free Women:

"Normally it is a new girl, or even a free woman, who is belled. To be sure, we may be belled at any time, and, naturally, if it is wished, kept that way. But usually one is belled, if at all, in serving, or in the dance. To be sure, it is sometimes required of us in the furs. Bells have many purposes, as might be supposed. Only one of these is security, making it easy, for example, to detect the presence, the movements, of a girl. This is particularly useful at night. One of the reasons too, why new girls, and sometimes free women, may be belled is that they may begin to understand what they are, or are likely to become. This is not hard to understand when one has bells locked on one's limbs. What sort of girl or woman would be belled? Later, of course, bells are unnecessary for such a purpose. Later, obviously, there will be no doubt as to what one is, either in the minds of others or in one's own mind." - Witness of Gor

[Maria Tisane]

To Anarch....
I will once more ask for a list of the Merchant Laws!  I keeping hearing about them, but can't find them anywhere.

[Carin McBride]

I have to say this.. yes an earth girl do Not have a home stone Not because she is a slvebut because she isnt gorean born, there was an earth woman ((her name has slipped my mind)) whom was brought to act as a free woman, tht she was inslved lader is besides the point, yet thu an earth girl is on gor as a slave, dont mean when she is freed and compnioned that she Dont have a HS, she will have her FC's, just as any other gorean slaves tha was freed.

And Maria I have a NC you can have its used at the Gorean Legal Academy.

[Elle Couerblanc]

I have to say this.. yes an earth girl do Not have a home stone Not because she is a slvebut because she isnt gorean born, there was an earth woman ((her name has slipped my mind)) whom was brought to act as a free woman, tht she was inslved lader is besides the point, yet thu an earth girl is on gor as a slave, dont mean when she is freed and compnioned that she Dont have a HS, she will have her FC's, just as any other gorean slaves tha was freed.

And Maria I have a NC you can have its used at the Gorean Legal Academy.

It was Elisha or Elicia in Slave Girl.  She was the Earth rival of Doreen and was brought to Gor as an agent of the Kur I believe.

[Elle Couerblanc]

I have to say this.. yes an earth girl do Not have a home stone Not because she is a slvebut because she isnt gorean born, there was an earth woman ((her name has slipped my mind)) whom was brought to act as a free woman, tht she was inslved lader is besides the point, yet thu an earth girl is on gor as a slave, dont mean when she is freed and compnioned that she Dont have a HS, she will have her FC's, just as any other gorean slaves tha was freed.

And Maria I have a NC you can have its used at the Gorean Legal Academy.

It was Elisha or Elicia in Slave Girl.  She was the Earth rival of Judy (main character) and was brought to Gor as an agent of the Kur I believe.

[Harper Frostwych]

Anarch..are you saying that a Free Woman belled is to become a kajira? Or is it to show that she has a duty to not become a kajira?

[Anarch Allegiere]

I think it was referred to as means of security for young free women, and to remind em they're, in the books, supposed to be submissive to men. I see belling a FW as a suitable punishment for her from a guardian, but mostly something that would be used for new, young companions.

The quote was just something random though... not to derail the thread.

[Aphris Myoo]

When one becomes a slave their past is erased, they have a new beginning as a slave.  Forget that they were once of Ar, or of Ko-Ro-Ba, or of Earth.  They are now Slave.  [ Pillar 1 ]

In this John Norman is not completely clear. Legaly her past is erased, but Old John states at several occasions that a former FW probably will be visited by former male enemies who would let her feel slavery. "de jure" her past has gone, "de facto" not.