Do we need stricter Tarn rules?

September 2010

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[Zak Delwood]

Can i opt in about maybe stricter Tarn rules. Many tarns out there go waaay to fast and no offense to Dove but her racer that i have seen people flying can cross a sim in a single push of the button and some tarns will allow you to carry 8 people.. without a basket... i know most people use the Havoc Rau Racer and i have seen every single other type of tarn builders tarn flown sometime or the other i just think there should be a set guideline.

My two cents..

[Victor Warilard]

Can i opt in about maybe stricter Tarn rules. Many tarns out there go waaay to fast and no offense to Dove but her racer that i have seen people flying can cross a sim in a single push of the button and some tarns will allow you to carry 8 people.. without a basket... i know most people use the Havoc Rau Racer and i have seen every single other type of tarn builders tarn flown sometime or the other i just think there should be a set guideline.

My two cents..

Can you start a new topic for this since it is a differenmt subject? We have discussed the issue before but have been unable to reach a consensus. I have been speaking with different makers and can give some feedback, but let's do it on a new thread.

[Laja DeCuir]

Can you start a new topic for this since it is a differenmt subject? We have discussed the issue before but have been unable to reach a consensus. I have been speaking with different makers and can give some feedback, but let's do it on a new thread.

Here you go - I splitted the thread and do hope it is the way you wanted to have it *smiles

[Xaz Elephas]

A racing tarn would not be used in battle. But they are, it gives the person on the tarn the advantage as its almost impossible if your on the ground to hit the tarn and tarnsman.  What is happening all over Gor is slowly tarns are being banned. The use of racers, the dropping of the oil bombs that lag a sim in battle, and I suppose the well tarns themself cause lag, is why.  This action of banning tarns really hurts Tarnsman and yeah even some of us assassins who used regular tarns to make our getaways after a kill. I really was surpised to see some sims ban tarns now all together. But I guess sim owners just get fed up and people always finding a way to try to gain that advantage above everyone else.  I won't fight a tarnsman now,  on the racers they move faster then then arrows. I simply hold up in a building and make him get off the tarn, then its equal, at least for me. 

[Zak Delwood]

i agree with Xaz i think Racers are way to fast put a decent fighter on a racing tarn and you have an unstoppable force. i know people do not like Thentis but their rule is that only Havoc Rau tarns may be used minus the Havoc Rau Racer.

The tarn is still extremely effective but not unbeatable with that rule, and Tarns cause quite a bit of lag especially with treve having no tarn rules so there could be 5-10 tarns in the air at once in a big fight.

[Victor Warilard]

I have been going back and forth on this issue myself. If we ban racers, do we ban the House Rau racer but allow the Toran which is about the same speed? Do we ban Dove's war tarn when it comes out since it's top speed will be faster than most, even though it will be slower than her racer? I don't like restricting people to just one maker.

One thing to remember about faster tarns: they are also a lot harder to handle and shoot from. This gives an advantage to an experienced tarnsman, i.e. Trevans.

I would rather see restrictions based on the tarn you use. Use a House Rau war yarn, no restrictions. Use a Toran or a racer- no bombs and no passengers. A speed limit for Dove's war tarn and her racer as above.

I think tarns are banned more out of ignorance than anything else. What if we hosted some type of event and asked the tarn makers to sponsor, do demonstrations with huge discounts that day for attendees who buy a tarn; a free tarn for sim owners or admins who change their rules to allow them, etc. When people see how much fun they are they are more likely to allow them. Something is wrong when more"gorean" sims allow femlaws than allow tarns.

[Carter Ebbage]

Something is wrong when more"gorean" sims allow femlaws than allow tarns.

yes there is something majorly wrong here.

I suspect you will find those sims who have gone to extraordinary lengths to create walled cities, put in traps, secret prim doors.. are the ones that dont like tarns. They cant protect themselves by "metagaming" and using SL tools to create something they can hide behind.

I also suspect, several have seen tarns abused excessively by some...flying around, shooting etc and flying off and generally being disruptive to RP.

I know when Darkness has spoke to sims OOCly about Treve using tarns.. they are very accomodating. Most appreciate why we use tarns and also "hopefully" we dont abuse that form of transportation.

The issue over racing tarns has to be.. they are fun, but in my opinion  NOT to be used for attacks or raids... they IC pure racing beasts... if we dont remain IC with the use of tarns and who can use them.. eg men and more specifically tarnsmen.. then people may as well use F16's or witches broomsticks

[Darkness Vollmar]

You have to be careful about banning a tarn simply because the maker calls is a "racing" tarn.   I have tested several tarns.  The ones that I have tested are as fast or faster then the Rau Racing tarn.  They are just not labeled as "racing".  The Toran Tarn for example is a bit faster.   After my testing, I stuck with Rau because it is smoother and I am used to it.  For me the Toran tarn dips and rolls too much to make it a good tarn to shoot from. 

The problem is that there is no standard.  I was in favor of stating a rule about the health meter of each tarn.  But others came up with good points about how each tarn is designed differently and there are other factors that made the Toran tarn fair versus the Rau tarn even though it takes twice as many shots to kill it.

The other metric we could use to judge Tarns is speed.  We could have a speed limit.  In my testing I used a stop watch to time how long it took to fly from 1 corner of the SIM to the other. 

Another important factor is corning ability.  I've seen and tested another tarn that totally out corners the Rau Racing tarn.

Finally, another factor that I can think of is dive speed.  For example the Toran goes even faster when it dives.

I'm sure there are a few other factors to consider.

The only fair way to regulate tarns in my opinion would be to test them all and rule out any that seem grossly unfair after looking at all the factors involved. 

I honestly do not think lag is an issue for most tarns.  The number of people on a SIM seems to be a bigger cause.

[Adoveea Rau]

My tarns have variable speeds, you choose what speed you want to go, I'm the only maker of tarns that has that option. So my tarns can be legally set for any sim where speed is concerned by the user themselves.
As for meter, I used the standard 7% arrow damage meter, it's acceptable all over Gor, I went with the standard health meter tarn program on that.
Frankly I  I thought I set my racers to take 14 points per hit, instead of the standard 7, I will double check them again.

Nothing worse then being at the forefront in setting the new standards, I remember this happening to weapon makers back in 2007, what you consider standard now was way too fast and restricted/banned back then.

I did extensive testing on tarn manufacturing speeds. To name the most popular
Basic War Rau tarn goes 120 km/hr at top speed
Toran goes 160 km/hr at stop speed- 192 km/hr at a dive.
My Racing tarn goes 281 at top speed, IF you set it to 9, and very very few tarnsmen can control it at that.
My war tarn is capped on speed, it will SEEM faster because I did some really serious work on flight patterns and smoothness. Cornering? Welcome to better scripting. My war tarn has 3 levels of turns, you get to pick which one you can handle.
 What you're encountering is a revolution over the flat flying boxes that have been in Gor for some time. Toran was always a great leader in capabilities of tarns, and Stephan's unfinished tarn of Treve was one of the early leaders in smooth flight. And I have other flight scripts too for the future where tarns are concerned.
Frankly as a responsible tarn maker, in my tarns, I'm not putting in the flapping wings, the blinking eyes, and all other extra scripts, that do make lag on a sim- no burning oil either. Every script is run is more lag. I won't even begin to talk about how arrows are the worst offenders on creating lag.
Baskets are for draft tarns-see Prize of Gor page 296-297. You can pick up quotes about tarns from the tarn house, or come by and suffer listening to me give you a very long about by the book lecture  tarns, equipment, speed and usage.
I think that getting tarnsmen to use limited arrows, lances and javelins like the book should be done, not to mention actual flying and doing sword combat on each other in the air. I'm working to that goal, slowly but surely.

[Mercy Riiser]

As one who has only just begun to fly (or try to fly) tarns, I find that they are just so much fun that it is a shame for any Gor sim to ban them.  As with anything in SL and RL, some people will abuse anything they get their hands on. In such cases they should be dealt as needed so the rest of us can continue to enjoy ourselves and keep rp as lively as possible.   

Anyone who has done a barrel turn on one of Lady Dove's tarns can never go back to a tarn-less Gor life! 

[Adoveea Rau]

This is another point I want to make about combat and tarns.
Its time to separate out the tarnsmen from the average warrior-in flight combat.
Anyone can hop on a regular tarn and get it flying. Doesn't take much at all. Toran is a more advanced tarn compared to the slow Rau. A tarnsman who can use a Toran effectively in flight can fly rings in combat over a tarnsman who can only fly a easily learned Rau, and someone who can use a Tarn House tarn to it's highest skill level will destroy all over the other tarnsmen BUT it takes skill to LEARN to do that. it's NOT easy.
 I can't test fly my own tarns to their highest ability, I rely on having the highest skilled tarnsmen I know testing out tarns I create. That should tell you something about the difference between the true tarnsman and someone who can build and program tarns.
Tarn flying combat shouldn't be like bows, pew pew aim and you can capture/down someone so easily. It should require someone takes the time and practice to get that good with a tarn. I watched Zane and Brigand race against each other in tarn race, they flew like demons, through the hoops and I won't even talk about the combat they did, i'll just say they weren't stopped in the air like stationary test dummy targets firing arrows at each other.

[Carter Ebbage]

here is a question Dove...

should there be a difference in health for a racing tarn over a war tarn... metered down for example.

I can appreciate the difference in speeds so I am comfortable with that.. speed over strength etc

and as side note.. I do love coming across a fight on a tarn when the guy obviously has no skill in flying and fighting at the same time.. sitting duck does come to mind.

[Darkness Vollmar]

Dove,

I know some prefer the Toran tarn for many reasons.  But I have yet to be beat by anyone flying one.  I consider myself a good tarnsmen.  I practice often and it is my prefered method of raiding.  I fly the Rau racing tarn.  But as I said, it is slower then the Toran tarn and it has 1/2 the meter of the Toran tarn.   So if the Toran is fair, then I consider the Rau racing tarn fair.

I have not tried your tarn, but I would love to sometime.   Lets chat in SL sometime.

Be well,

Dark

[Koh Gausman]

I have to agree with Carter on the health to speed ratio for tarns. I believe the faster it goes, the weaker it should be. Racing tarns are specificly to be used for what they were designed for, RACING! War tarns should be slow, yet agile, big yet fearce. I do believe there should be a standardized system put in place on tarns. It should be a system that would be based on speed, health, size and handling.

A standard WILL come. Just for every standard, there must be an example to compare to. then after there is one to compare to, the sims must adopt. Its a slow process, but eventually the need will demand attention to the point that it can no longer be ignored. I personally look forward to the day when a majority of the sims adopt a set standard for tarns.

[Adoveea Rau]

I agree on the health meter, that's why I'm going to make sure those racers are at 100 points with damage being 14 points per arrow on them, the war tarns are already at 100 points with with 7 points per arrow.
Ask some of those in Treve, Darkness about the racers, war tarn has yet to be released but several tarnsmen have been flying the testing ones, nice PINK things that they are