Female mercenary???

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Carin McBride]

Okay a very dear friend of mine send this to me, I know we dont alowe female outlaws but this is something to think about I think.

" I saw Tarna, the leader of the raiders, standing in her stirrups, scimitar high, urging her men forward, then joining in the pursuit." Page 193 'Tribesmen of Gor', - John Norman

 I turned my attention to the auburn-haired girl. "Are you well paid?" I asked. "Yes," she said. "Do you understand the nature of the cause in which you work?" I asked. "Of course," she said. "I labor in the cause of Sidney Anderson." "You are a true mercenary," I smiled. "Yes," she said, proudly, "I am a mercenary." She loked at me. "Do you think a woman cannot be a mercenary?" "No," I said, "I see no reason why a woman cannot be a mercenary." Beasts of Gor pages 145-46

They rushed to the walls.     Within the parapets we fought those who had scaled the walls. I saw one invader climbing down the ladder to the lower levels. Then he cried out and slipped to the level beneath, his hands off the rungs.
    I saw Telima's head in the opening. In her teeth was the dagger I had seen. In her right hand, bloody, was the admiral's sword I had discarded.     "Go back!" I cried to her.
    I saw Luma and Vina climbing up behind her. They picked up stones from the roof of the keep, and ran to the walls, to hurl them at point-blank range against the men climbing.     Telima, wildly, her two hands on the sword, struck a man from behind in the neck and he fell away from the blade. Raiders of Gor, p.297

[Grammaticus Winterwolf]

Ok I'll provide some backstory to these the first extract is from tribesmen the woman in question was given her own army as she was the pawn of the ubar of the desert she was willing to fill in wells which is an incredible insult in the tahari where water is almost sacred and wells are protected. She was skilled and lethal if just a little arrogant no one questioned her tarl eventually as hE always does challenges her strengh and in the end she is in a collar but yes she Is a good example of a female mercenary the second extract is from if I remember correcty beasts the woman speaking is herself sidney and is a pawn of kurii as she is intelligent and ruthless with no ties to any goreAn morals etc as she is from earth her second in command an assassin has been promised her as a slave when she stops being useful. And yes the third quote is quite fitting they are not expected to survive and unlike in normal encounters they know even the slaves will be killed without mercy prompting them to fight instead of wait for there ownership to change hands. They are all quite useful but I should point out the second extract I wouldn't put much faith in as tarl is reffering to her lack of morals as mercenary she doesn't actually and cannot fight

[Wanita Slade]

That is just taking a quote out from the books without following through the entire context of the passage.

If you read on, you will see that the women inflicted little harm to the men; they hardly flinched at the strikes and she in the end would be overcome.

In the books it kindly portrays an aura of victory and strength of these so called female warriors (and I use that term loosely) but in the end, they all succumb to their fate. Hard for SL females to accept I imagine. A bit of an anti climax which will not go down with the majority of females wanting to play a fighting role.

The only recognised warriors in Gor are only Talunas and Panthers. However they are regarded as Hunters; they keep to the forest/jungles and hunt in packs.

Given the diversity of SL and its magical world with almost limitless boundaries, people are going to go beyond the status quo that is authentic Gor. That is why certain sims ban female fighters other than the Huntresses themselves.

At the end of the day, the very author of the books wrote to a popular Gorean website and I leave this quote for you to digress.

“There are no female warriors on Gor” – John Norman

[Carin McBride]

no killing the messenger  I for one Dont like women having weapons as meny knows, her and I talked and she gave me this, I thought it would be fun to poste them and one thing she wanted to point out to me was the two handed sword.. as I have any idea what the hut that is

[Victor Warilard]

There are plenty of "Gor-Evolved" sims that allow female warriors, mercenaries, etc. I have nothing against them--the owner of the sim can do whatever they want. I played in these sims for a long time with an alt. However, it is not really Gor. They just take some of the basics of Gor as a context, but it is very different that what we and other BtB sims do. The advise I give to anyone who wants to try both is to get an alt and use one for each game, but keep them totally separate.

[Payton999 Robonaught]

*points up a post*this.

And some have amazing RP, some are just cap, rape and trade sadly.   

[Liliana Aluveaux]

Its tough because even if you allowed a woman to be a mercenary in the way that the books describe, many won't. Just like with the panther role. It's sad really.

[Payton999 Robonaught]

I'm the worlds worst poster in these things. Please ignore.

[Mona Nieuport]

I have to agree with both Carin and Draco. 

@ Carin - reading those posts alone, lead one to believe that there were female warriors in Gor....
I for one, much like Carin, have been in Gor for a few years and never read a book.  I tried once...it made me sleepy.  Not afraid to say it either.  I can serve my pants off and can follow the rules outlined to me by any sim.  I am an SL gorean...thats it. 
A few years ago...in a different life, I was a rather liberal SL player.  I was a big advocate of, "this is SL...and if women want to enhance their RP...then let them play the character they want, even if it wasn't in the books.  I was happy to play with pirate women, merc women, and outlaw women...at some point...after the good old Vost League Outpost days...it got out of control and super strengths and sheera costumes arrived and it got really damn messy....

@ Draco - He's right.  If you are curious....make like Curious George and give it a whirl....but DON'T mess with your main character or you will lose credibility in the 'closer to' gorean sims.

Mona.....out

 

[Kyss Ohl]

Hrm..let's see...putting those in context....The first two if I remember correctly ended up as slaves.  The second in particular stands out...if my memory serves...the context of that statement would be that he thought she was a blooming idiot. The woman was an earth born woman who thought she was a mercenary and had no real concept of how Gor was.  She thought she had power, when she was just being manipulated. As for the third...those were slaves defending their homestone, and would have been subject to killing if their side lost for attacking a free.

[Carter Ebbage]

When I first entered SL GOR, I was given those quotes and sort of accepted them on face value and was part of groups with female fighters in them.

Then came this whole BtB no femlaw thing. and although I was bitterly against it.. not because of the theme of it, but the main organisers where very misguided in some of their actions and particularly the way they expressed themselves.. it was not very pleasant I assure you.

I made a choice with others .. to join Treve and become what was called BtB.. mainly because I so bored and frustrated with the issues of dealing with women and weapons behaving like elite commando units and the theme of Treve really appealed to my rougish nature.. warrior/bandit/outlaw.. perfect for me 

However... there is a fundamental difference in the way people act and behave when women are armed, in positions of leadership and represent most of the important IC roles of a sim or group, which is usually the case in a Gor Evolved sims..

it doesnt lend itself to the spirit of GOR.. which is a male dominated, structured and complex society and the themes of RP and general interaction that come from that.

This doesnt mean Gor evolved sims are any less better.. but its very different interaction and RP.

My own personal experience was more.

hanging out with friends and looking out for each other.. my gang versus your gang sort of thing.
the master/slave relationship was more girlfriend in nature with a spice of BDSM thrown in.
torture seemed to be a thing.. almost to the point of "I can think of more gruesome torture then you can"
most female outlaws and mercenaries had a slave alt.. for their boyfriends and also they liked floaty silks
the role play between castes was almost non-existant..
I spent alot of time practicing my weapons thats for sure..

Also, and this is more general statement.. GOR evolved sims lacked a maturity I suppose, and those who know me realise I am no spring chicken and OOC drama did seem to raise its ugly head alot, mostly due to the inter relationships of the men and women playing mercs and outlaws.

so thats my experience of an environment where those statements are used to support the theme of women being outlaws, mercenaries even warriors on occassions

[Dracosilverwing Allen]

We all know what My view is. Any Free Woman that believes themself Man enough to pick up a weapon and shoot Me. Is Man enough to take the responsibilities for the actions. Same with slaves. Any Free Woman that shoots me better be ready for an unbearable capture or death as I frown apon the thought of that. A woman should be prick and speen as a high caste. And this is after talking with some greens who claim to hide crossbows under their skirts. I find it very against the own roleplay to even try to harm another person. But that is My imput. Cherio!

Blood and Coin

[Lilith Illyar]

Though while not a mercenary, I must admit that Lilith has always been armed with blades... though never a bow.  I must laugh though each time the quote is given about women not having the strength to draw a long bow.  Carter can bear witness that in RL he's seen that I can finger a long bow to it's extent... I guess I must be stronger than a 12 year old boy. 

But no... these women that leap tall buildings, carry 200 pounds of grappling equipment and outrun tharlarions... puhleese... how ridiculous.

No matter what role someone chooses, all I require is that they play it believable.  Even men dragging around another full grown man, shooting a bow and at a dead run is just as silly.

Play your part realistically and I have no issue.  Even Lilith doesn't win every time. 

Lilith

[Mandy Carbenell]

Seems to me these quotes surface and resurface over and over, my sim does allow female fighters (not warriors) let me elaborate that: In times of a raid, FW can pick up a bow in our village to defend it. After all, FW were pretty good huntresses with small bows in their spare time. Of course I did include a nc about Xena behaviour in my sim: I will not allow it, women dragging a man? Yes, two women can...not one. I have been an outlaw, merc, panther and taluna..the first two were merely World of Gorcraft and boring, the last were fun and btb. But I agree...No female warriors on Gor.

Just my two copper tarsks.

[Aphris Myoo]

I recognice much what Carter wrote since we had much role play with Saphronicus in the past and for sometime were docked to it. That was mid 2008 and then you saw the BtB movement coming up and people making choices.

Before that lots of groups had women with bows, for instance all wagonpeople, but red savages too. Onlinisms of course, because its not in the books, but hardly one took offense. There were almost no female mercenaries and outlaw groups then. Only the Shinigami (we had hardly problems with them) and the Siba Shadows, which were notorious for their cheating and already had a RP ban from us since 2007 (stil valid because they still cheat).

Then early 2008 more and more Siba like groups came up, mixed bands of men and women, loving to raid and torture. A counter movement came: the BtB. End result: the wagonpeople which were quite BtB, landed because of their female bow habits in the camp of Gor Evolved. And lost slowly contact with the ones from BtB: people like Carter who choose BtB. At this moment there is a divide between GE and BtB, seldom one of a BtB sim visits the KWC sim, before mid 2008 we had daily visitors.

Now back to Carins quotes
- Tarna was an outlaw, who wielded a sword. She was alone and ruled by the salt ubar. Hardly an excuse for whole groups of female outlaws.
- Sidney was a female mercenary, hired from Earth by the Kurii. She never used arms.
- The scenes in Raiders during the sieges were slave girls, who in a desperate battle tried to help their beloved masters. Not realy a merc bataljon.
All ended as slaves.

Where there female mercs and outlaws on Gor? Mercs unarmed: yes, several spies. Armed: no.
Outlaws: all panther girls are outlaws
Mixed outlaw groups: yes. And it surprises me none of all those outlaw groups does use that quote, because it describes an outlaw group in the Northern Forests.

Grenna, in her tatters of white wool, her hands tied behind
her back, knelt before me, head to the sand. The severed
coffle leather was still knotted about her neck.
"Does she please you?" I asked Arn.
"She does," said Arn.
"She is yours," I told him, giving him Grenna. "Remove her
collar," I told Thurnock. The peasant giant did so.
Then Arn summoned his men, those who accompanied me.
"I depart," said he.
"I wish you well, Arn," I said, "and the others, too."
He began to leave the beach. Grenna looked wildly after
him. Then, hands still tied behind her back, she ran to him.
"Master," she said.
He looked at her. "I am an outlaw," said he. "I have little
use for a slave."
She stood there, bewildered.
"But I do find you beautiful," said Arn. "And I do desire
you."
"I do not understand," she stammered.
He turned her about. With his sleen knife he cut the
knotted loop of coffle leather from her throat. With his knife
he cut the binding fiber from her wrists. He then held her
from behind, by the arms, and kissed her, gently, on the right
side of the throat.
Still held, she whispered, not looking at him, "Am I not to
submit to you?"
He released her arms. "No," he said. "I free you."
She turned to face him. She stood on the beach. She
rubbed her wrists. She seemed startled.
"I have little time," said Arn. "I am an outlaw. I must
hunt." He turned away.
"I am Grenna," she cried suddenly. "I was second to Hura.
I, too, am an outlaw. I, too, know the forests. I, too, must
hunt."
Arn turned and faced her. "Do you find me pleasing?" he
asked.
"I do," said she, "Arn."
"On my head," said Arn, "I wear the degradation stripe."
"Let me, too, so shave my head," said she.
He smiled. "I must hunt," he said.
She smiled at him. "I must hunt, too," she said.
Arn extended her his hand. "Come," he said, "let us hunt
together."
Arn and Grenna, followed by his men, entered the forest,
and disappeared.

Arn and Grenna are with the two of them, and maybe some others, a mixed outlaw group. But like the panthers, among which they lived, hardly a group to raid cities or wagoncamps which contain hunderds of thousands of people.