High death rate?

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[jameriza Starostin]

While I havent actively been in gor for a while, I still speak with a few of you via outside SL chats, and there is one thing that has constantly come up.

The kill happy mood of people these days, Everyones a culprit you get angered, over excited annoyed in roleplay and you decide to just lop the persons head off.

However you tend to forget that death is simply a less then effective 24hr time out basically your saying " You annoyed me now go and sit in your corner to think about what youve done" It kills all roleplay that person had going, or others had going with said dead person... I remeber when Shadow got killed I was in rp with him repaying a debt and that all got ended due to his death leaving unfinished rp in the end I was thankfully able to carry across to the ressurected and more annoying version Paine, not everyone has this option.

Goreans valued life, they wouldnt take it lightly hell its been known for Warriors to stop stunned by the simple beauty of a flower, or a Scribe to weep at the sound of a flowing river, a hardened assassin to cherish the beauty of a newborn, It was not something that was taken lightly or for granted.

I am just saying there are so many different ways to handle someone then just out right sending them to a 24hour naughty corner, while I know in some cases this is unavoidable (Assassins, Ubars fulfilling punishments for crimes and the likes), If someone stands there calling you a kajirus and your Companion a slut dont kill them, turn them into a kajirus and have them learning the meaning of slut.

Gor is harsh, brutal but I also see it as an eye for an eye kind of world, They take yours take theres back, try to keep the rp going it becomes appreciated.

[Carter Ebbage]

Goreans valued life, they wouldnt take it lightly hell its been known for Warriors to stop stunned by the simple beauty of a flower, or a Scribe to weep at the sound of a flowing river, a hardened assassin to cherish the beauty of a newborn, It was not something that was taken lightly or for granted.

I keep hearing this quote... Goreans valued life.. and yet Gor was a warring civilisation, one of the high castes of gorean society is the warrior - a person trained to kill others.

It could be said Earth people value life.. we have poets, artists, a whole theme of our culture dedicated to expressing the beauty of nature and relationships we have with each other.. .. but we also send thousands of our soldiers to kill, destroy, maim our enemies - do we really value life as a whole  ?

[Snapper Hollak]

I agree with Carter on this one , maybe it was that the Gor valued Beauty , if not why the serum to keep a youthful look , sort of like " I'll die with my boots on " Gor its I'll die with my beauty on. If Gor was  a place that valued life , why would it be ok for a free woman to one) sell her child into slavery 2 or if she didn't want it leave it out somewhere to die.3 waring all the time with other gorean's 4.have hired killers. All that doesn't scream a society that valued life.

[Xaz Elephas]

Jameriza, I have learned myself never to take someone else view of Gor to heart of what is going on, but my own view as a player of Gor. I visit many cities and I do not see these mass killings you imply.   

For a Society that accepted Assassins to enter a city to kill one of there citizens, possibly even there Ubar, Goreans might have valued life but they also accepted death.

[Isabella Bergiere]

I have to say, jameriza, that whilst I get your point and I do agree with enhancing and extending RP where possible I also think it needs to be kept as realistic as possible.

For example, when strangers wander up the completely secret and hiden path to the Treve gate they should be met with open hostility as per the books, enslaved if a woman and most likely killed if a man.  They aren't going to be given a telling off and sent on their merry way.

(Thats my other bugbear - OOC - There's no excuse for ignorance about the theme, there are loads of notecards at the start point, which if you are going on someone's Sim it's only polite to read, and there's even a warning that flashes up as you approach the path.  How much clearer does it need to be?!  lol)

Ahhh and breath.  Be well all  

[Spencer Darwinian]

I somewhat agree with your point.  The killing seems somewhat over done sometimes.  Recently, at my home stone, I caught a slave trying to escape because someone threaten to kill her for being in a tavern as a white silk.  When they were told she was there with the Ubar's permission (and for RP reasons) the person threatened to pack up and leave and take his toys with him if that were allowed (it degenerated into a mix of OOC and IC but that's not the point).  I put the girl in a cage outside the kennel to let the slavers deal with her.  While she was in there, one of the slaves, sympathetic to her cause, helped her escape.  To me, I would be more willing to slay the slave who helped her escape (or at least hamstring her) than to kill the girl in the tavern for being their, with the Ubar's knowledge.

I'm not saying the Ubar was right or wrong or even BTB in allowing her to be in the tavern.  I wasn't part of that section of the RP.  I'm only saying 'pick your battles' so to speak.  If you're going to kill someone outside of battle, slave or otherwise, have a good reason.  I don't recall them, willy nilly, killing slaves in the books although there were lots of comments about the Master's right to kill them.  It always seemed they avoided killing rather than actually going through with it. 

Am I off base with this thought?

[Carter Ebbage]

I somewhat agree with your point.  The killing seems somewhat over done sometimes.  Recently, at my home stone, I caught a slave trying to escape because someone threaten to kill her for being in a tavern as a white silk.  When they were told she was there with the Ubar's permission (and for RP reasons) the person threatened to pack up and leave and take his toys with him if that were allowed (it degenerated into a mix of OOC and IC but that's not the point).  I put the girl in a cage outside the kennel to let the slavers deal with her.  While she was in there, one of the slaves, sympathetic to her cause, helped her escape.  To me, I would be more willing to slay the slave who helped her escape (or at least hamstring her) than to kill the girl in the tavern for being their, with the Ubar's knowledge.

I'm not saying the Ubar was right or wrong or even BTB in allowing her to be in the tavern.  I wasn't part of that section of the RP.  I'm only saying 'pick your battles' so to speak.  If you're going to kill someone outside of battle, slave or otherwise, have a good reason.  I don't recall them, willy nilly, killing slaves in the books although there were lots of comments about the Master's right to kill them.  It always seemed they avoided killing rather than actually going through with it. 

Am I off base with this thought?

Where it went wrong for me.. is why did an Ubar even talk to a white silk, never mind involved in telling her where she can go.. if he has nothing else better to do, I have some work for him.. like RULING a city.. pfft

Places a call to Queen of England "Dear Elizabeth, can I go to the pub please.. yours sincerely a humble low level peasant"

[Spencer Darwinian]

Queen of England returns Carter's call "No, you may not go to the pub because you clearly missed the point of what he was trying to say."

Regardless of the Ubar's motives in this or the RP behind it, the point of this thread was about high death rate and the reasons for it.

My point was that reasons for killing someone should be fairly substantial other than 'just be cause you can'.  We are RPing Gor, and killing someone for mediocre reasons ruins their RP.

The reason the Ubar allowed her in the tavern is an aside.

[Revenge Sempati]

I do agree that in SL Gor the death of a character ruins a lot of things and throws a lot of things out of whack.  Death in real world does the same thing, it is the traumatic part of a person dying, it is not the dead one that suffers but those around them that feel the ripples.  But if you act in such a way that someone killing you is a likely result, well you have two choices.  Keep on going the way you are and get killed, or be smart enough to minimize just how likely you are to be killed.
In 4 years I have been killed once, and even that was at the hands of a outlaw torture brigade that came along for a little pew-pew and cutting.  I am sure I have annoyed enough over the years to warrant a death, most recently was the Ubara of Treve, but if valid death comes my way chances are Ven will be dead for a long time.

Goreans valued life, they wouldnt take it lightly hell its been known for Warriors to stop stunned by the simple beauty of a flower, or a Scribe to weep at the sound of a flowing river, a hardened assassin to cherish the beauty of a newborn, It was not something that was taken lightly or for granted.

This quote, or some interpretations of this quote have always annoyed me.  For a culture that would kill another for mere honor or for that sexy little slave, I would hardly say they value human life.  It is clear in the books they have no issue with killing, feeding slaves to canal urts or tharlarion, but destroying a forest or wholesale slaughter of herds are beyond comprehension.

My interpretation is that Goreans valued nature, natural order, the vicious circle of life and death.  They have learned to embrace and express their feeling for the world around them, to try and live in harmony with the natural world instead of crushing it under their heels.  A Warrior that just slaughtered a dozen enemies on the battlefield without emotion could be moved to tears by a sunset or the wind making a talender dance.

[Spacer Ghostraven]

I do agree that in SL Gor the death of a character ruins a lot of things and throws a lot of things out of whack.  Death in real world does the same thing, it is the traumatic part of a person dying, it is not the dead one that suffers but those around them that feel the ripples.  But if you act in such a way that someone killing you is a likely result, well you have two choices.  Keep on going the way you are and get killed, or be smart enough to minimize just how likely you are to be killed.
In 4 years I have been killed once, and even that was at the hands of a outlaw torture brigade that came along for a little pew-pew and cutting.  I am sure I have annoyed enough over the years to warrant a death, most recently was the Ubara of Treve, but if valid death comes my way chances are Ven will be dead for a long time.

Goreans valued life, they wouldnt take it lightly hell its been known for Warriors to stop stunned by the simple beauty of a flower, or a Scribe to weep at the sound of a flowing river, a hardened assassin to cherish the beauty of a newborn, It was not something that was taken lightly or for granted.

This quote, or some interpretations of this quote have always annoyed me.  For a culture that would kill another for mere honor or for that sexy little slave, I would hardly say they value human life.  It is clear in the books they have no issue with killing, feeding slaves to canal urts or tharlarion, but destroying a forest or wholesale slaughter of herds are beyond comprehension.

My interpretation is that Goreans valued nature, natural order, the vicious circle of life and death.  They have learned to embrace and express their feeling for the world around them, to try and live in harmony with the natural world instead of crushing it under their heels.  A Warrior that just slaughtered a dozen enemies on the battlefield without emotion could be moved to tears by a sunset or the wind making a talender dance.

So then Gorean's are tree huggers eh? I need hold more wildlife for ransom then. Slaves dont do any good hah. But yes, that can be a bit of a weird concept to claim they value life yet take it so much. With so many laws landing you a death sentense it can seem a bit harsh at times. Spacer has yet been killed thankfully.. dispite some law issues haha.. But as said, you must just play it realisticly and try not do anything stupid to get ones self killed, or be smart and find a way get yourself out of such a situation.

[Daved Calderwood]

I think what also is a problem is how with Gor there seems to be a "group mentality" rather than individualism. By that I am referring to comments that always seem to be begin with "Goreans generally..." as if meaning that if someone were to deviate for that then there is something wrong with the person.

So let's for the sake of argument say that "Gorean customs usally ..." and we add what we want. Ok now lets break it down a bit and use some earth examples of societies since essentially Gor is borrowed from many of those and we are talking about essentially humans just from another planet.

Greek/Roman cultures have created some of the most amazing art and philosophy that is still studied today.

Asian cultures such as in Japan and China have rigid codes and a unique perspective on art and philosophies.

American Indians such as the Apache were well known as a people that adhered to being one with nature and respected it.

Now these are just four or five different cultures from different backgrounds and philosophies and yet they share a common history as being some of the most bloodthirsty killers of all time. These people fought tooth and nail , they fought even amongst their own. And how many plotted murder? how many were greedy? how many stole , lied , cheated and did whatever they could to survive. Not all of course but to think they were all a bunh of peace loving folk that only fought when war was declared is not so.

Yes Goreans valued life, particular their OWN lives , that I dont think can be even considerted as a custom but human nature. And just like human nature people can be influenced by their own wants and desires to the point of either creating the greatest of miracles or nightmarish horrors.

[Hawt Sommer]

I usually just kill the Assholes...

... or kill the Assholes that Kill me.  Sometimes I just mentally torture them for a couple of weeks messing with their already unstable minds... 

I bring grief and lots of it- making everyone that survives feel like refugees after a nuclear disaster. 

Then I bathe in and feed from their sorrows sitting next to them with my other Alt like a sick twisted ghoul.

Aren't people just Ugly?  Welcome to SL.

Remember you have the power to take it seriously or not.   You lose an Avatar for 24,  Play one of your many other Alternate Characters.  Take a vacation or Reset and call it invalid because you were putting your socks on in RL. 

[Kyss Ohl]

Has it ever occurred to anyone..that if people didn't die of sickness or old age that often...Yet constantly continued to reproduce and bring in slaves..that if Death didn't happen all the time Gor would end up with problems of over population??


Just throwing that out there...

[Aphris Myoo]

Talking about high death rates.

At college I had to study mortality tables. Also one of a Caribean slave plantation in the 19th century. Life expectancy at birth 27 years. 
RL slavery is not fun.