Intruders of Treve

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May 2012

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[Anarch Allegiere]

As requested:

[14:13] Vido Sciarri: could you put a post in about this point of us having to take 30 mins out to kill some idiot
[14:13] Anarch Allegiere: I could make a thread about it I guess
[14:13] Anarch Allegiere: sure
[14:13] Vido Sciarri: please
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: i would like someone to tell us what we are meant to do
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: i am in rp
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: some idiot comes in the gate
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: the alarm goes
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: do i have to take 30 mins out my rp to kill it or not
[14:15] Anarch Allegiere: can I quote you for the thread?
[14:15] Vido Sciarri: please yes?

Now to the point of the matter: I had assumed from reading the last forum thread on the topic that 30 minute RP before killing an invader inside the city walls wouldn't be required. Sort of makes sense with the 2 OOC warnings you get.
And the fact that often those 'intruders' don't have any valid IC knowledge of the city either.

This seemed perfectly fine in my eyes as it is after all "Treve the hidden city" ... I personally don't often have issues with having to RP 30 minutes before executing someone, but I can understand if others might not have the patience to do that everytime one of those invaders tries to get in, and that occassions could occur at which I might not have that patience either.

So do the same rules apply for a kill of an intruder due to being inside the city as would for killing someone anywhere else on the sim and for other reasons? (eg. 30 minute RP + logging the RP + having approval of a mod to do the kill?)

--

On top of that there is another issue I don't really see covered and that is "people escaping from Treve".
Ofcourse people can escape and such, but my main issue is that they shouldn't use 'having been in Treve' as an IC valid reason to know about Treve and thus being allowed to walk up to there OR using the other ways of getting there. Not that it would truly matter ofcourse... as they'd still get killed if they get inside. The only time it matters is when people try to raid the city itself.

An extensive list on what is NOT valid IC knowledge of Treve's location would be useful perhaps, (considering how alot of people try to use the smallest excuse to claim having rights of passage towards our gates...)
- Having heard a friend say where the city is.
- Having escaped the city.
- Having been a citizen or slave that left.
- etc.

[Pax Canning]

Well, about answering the bell at the gate, if I don't have time to rp with the person, I just ignore the bell.   I've seen that done many, many times.

[Carter Ebbage]

As requested:

[14:13] Vido Sciarri: could you put a post in about this point of us having to take 30 mins out to kill some idiot
[14:13] Anarch Allegiere: I could make a thread about it I guess
[14:13] Anarch Allegiere: sure
[14:13] Vido Sciarri: please
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: i would like someone to tell us what we are meant to do
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: i am in rp
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: some idiot comes in the gate
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: the alarm goes
[14:14] Vido Sciarri: do i have to take 30 mins out my rp to kill it or not
[14:15] Anarch Allegiere: can I quote you for the thread?
[14:15] Vido Sciarri: please yes?

Now to the point of the matter: I had assumed from reading the last forum thread on the topic that 30 minute RP before killing an invader inside the city walls wouldn't be required. Sort of makes sense with the 2 OOC warnings you get.
And the fact that often those 'intruders' don't have any valid IC knowledge of the city either.

This seemed perfectly fine in my eyes as it is after all "Treve the hidden city" ... I personally don't often have issues with having to RP 30 minutes before executing someone, but I can understand if others might not have the patience to do that everytime one of those invaders tries to get in, and that occassions could occur at which I might not have that patience either.

So do the same rules apply for a kill of an intruder due to being inside the city as would for killing someone anywhere else on the sim and for other reasons? (eg. 30 minute RP + logging the RP + having approval of a mod to do the kill?)

--

On top of that there is another issue I don't really see covered and that is "people escaping from Treve".
Ofcourse people can escape and such, but my main issue is that they shouldn't use 'having been in Treve' as an IC valid reason to know about Treve and thus being allowed to walk up to there OR using the other ways of getting there. Not that it would truly matter ofcourse... as they'd still get killed if they get inside. The only time it matters is when people try to raid the city itself.

An extensive list on what is NOT valid IC knowledge of Treve's location would be useful perhaps, (considering how alot of people try to use the smallest excuse to claim having rights of passage towards our gates...)
- Having heard a friend say where the city is.
- Having escaped the city.
- Having been a citizen or slave that left.
- etc.

I think at the end of the day it comes down to the judgement of the individual and the framework of the theme and rules

a) we made it clear...intruders INSIDE the city will be be killed or enslaved
b) to maintain the secrecy of the city.. valid IC reason or not of knowing where the city is... the information dies with the person
c) escapes can be tracked down and BC if necessary can be paid to have the person killed for his/her IC knowledge of knowing where Treve is

I can think of nothing more stupid than saying to a Treve warrrior .. "I know where your city is" ..  which means I can compromise the safety of your family and your children, I can lead an army to your gates to have you all killed... and then not expect to be killed.. sometimes knowledge is a dangerous thing to have ...

We now have two alerts as people wander up the path to Treve warning people, rp notecards, explanations of our theme etc

 Anything more just compromises the theme of city and ourselves by not killing or enslaving them. Also, give the BC some work.. lets get them tracking down escapes or officers give orders to the warriors to track these poeple down and make sure the information dies with them.

[Malcomb Danitz]

I will go out on a limb here, and say that i have done more executions lately than anyone.  I do not seek this distinction, but it seems to come to me.  I even killed a guy in Minus. 

In each case it was a pain in the behind.  Just like a raid, it never comes when you can make time, or want to make time.  My first kill came when Dark had to log after capping a guy.  he asked me to finish the guy, and do it up good.  So i gave the guy a good 45 minutes of interrogation, and then i whacked him.  The one in Minus came after Victor had taken a guy we wanted, and he too was busy. 

Today it was Vido that had capped him, and had to go, so i took over.  Gave the guy a bit of torture, and then with great honor, i took him to the city of dust.

I like the idea of 30 minutes to force the player to really commit to the kill.  Not a quick whack and gone, but a well thought out RP.  And if you just cant do it, lock them up, hand them off to another if possible, then go.  Even if you end up with them leaving and invalidating the whole thing, its better than getting out of RP by killing quickly.  Need a kill? Ask a buddy.

[Celticqueen Dragovar]

Guess I better start hiding cause ah...I do know where the entrance to the city is *grins* I paid a she-urt who had discovered it by accident when she was exploring...(She mentioned discovering it in this manner so I paid her to show me. She didn't take me past the bushes and I didn't step through them either. Luckily, there wasn't anyone around at the time either)

[Payton999 Robonaught]

Guess I better start hiding cause ah...I do know where the entrance to the city is *grins* I paid a she-urt who had discovered it by accident when she was exploring...(She mentioned discovering it in this manner so I paid her to show me. She didn't take me past the bushes and I didn't step through them either. Luckily, there wasn't anyone around at the time either)

I think, and please Carter or someone correct me if I'm wrong, that unless the Urtlady had some amazing tracking skills, even if she did manage to find Treve exploring in the mountains for what likely would be a good week without directions, she surely would have died trying to find her way to the foothills again.

That said, I'm sure you'd know well enough, that should you wander up to the gate without a VERY good reason, you'd not make it out again.  *grins*

[Ashoka Mosely]

Celtic... are you kidding me?

[Isabella Bergiere]

I think, and please Carter or someone correct me if I'm wrong, that unless the Urtlady had some amazing tracking skills, even if she did manage to find Treve exploring in the mountains for what likely would be a good week without directions, she surely would have died trying to find her way to the foothills again.

yeah the amount of people who 'find' it is just so funny.
I've seen people flower picking, ramberry picking etc.

Yes its a 30 sec run across the sim but in actual Gor it would be an arduous trek through terrible terrain, theres no chance a she'urt could have done it.  
Remember it's a mountain range!  Just think what that means;  in RL it took me 6 hours to climb up and down Ben Lomond and thats the smallest munro in Scotland with a well worn path to the top 

[dana Tehani]

what Bella and Pay said... and........


How did she know it was Treve, last I checked we didnt have a sign on the door to say Treve?" grins " Also.. Treve is well guarded if someone is within the range of the door they are shot and killed.. no one can make it alive or leave once they found the path to Treve.. People have to realize they can not know the way to Treve.. its becoming ridiculous how many know the "way" to treve that's why I agree strongly with Carter that IC actions should be carried out so that people finally understand Treve is not to be  just found or discussed in open like that.

 I found it funny that a panther ended up in Treve yesterday and her reason was "I stumbled into the sewers". You cant "stumble" into the sewers in Minus.. its impossible cuz its well hidden and why would a panther travel alone.. and why would she go up all the way?.. Just think realistic here not that its easy to find things on radar. I was new to SL Gor when I came in and found Treve the same day!  Just saying, easily found on sim.. impossible realistically on Gor.. Which do we want to rp!?

[Ashoka Mosely]

nono, she was just joking...c'mon...

[Isabella Bergiere]

ooops sorry autumn i thought you were being serious lolol  -  doh!  I should have known you would have had a better reason.   


We do have some of the funniest, flimsiest excuses though! 
I am starting a collection.  Anything more original than 'I have a map' wins a special Bella prize 

[Carter Ebbage]

what Bella and Pay said... and........


How did she know it was Treve, last I checked we didnt have a sign on the door to say Treve?" grins " Also.. Treve is well guarded if someone is within the range of the door they are shot and killed.. no one can make it alive or leave once they found the path to Treve.. People have to realize they can not know the way to Treve.. its becoming ridiculous how many know the "way" to treve that's why I agree strongly with Carter that IC actions should be carried out so that people finally understand Treve is not to be  just found or discussed in open like that.

 I found it funny that a panther ended up in Treve yesterday and her reason was "I stumbled into the sewers". You cant "stumble" into the sewers in Minus.. its impossible cuz its well hidden and why would a panther travel alone.. and why would she go up all the way?.. Just think realistic here not that its easy to find things on radar. I was new to SL Gor when I came in and found Treve the same day!  Just saying, easily found on sim.. impossible realistically on Gor.. Which do we want to rp!?

Totally agree with you Lina and now two things can happen here when we face this situation

a) You can spend 30-minutes discussing with someone who basically couldnt give a fuck about the theme of Treve, Gor in general or any realism in RP and end up calling a mod to spend another 30-45 minutes discussing this them and get know where.

or....

b) You can dispatch them to the city of dusts with the comment.. tsk tsk just not your day is it 

option B is the recommended way forwarded, has been agreed with the council and additional warnings, notecards have been posted around.. NOBODY has an excuse for bitching and moaning that they didnt realise Treve is not a watered down gorean RP theme when it comes to dealing with strangers who IC threaten the safety of the city..

So let people have their little giggle and fun by saying they know where Treve is.

As I say to them..  "okay now tell me IC and lets see what happens" ... they soon remain quiet and forget they know where Treve is and soon stop inferring the have some secret map, because they know IC I will kill then.

Dont argue with people about IC things.. deal with them IC ... dont care how you got here, how you know..buybye and have fun in the after life !!!

[Spacer Ghostraven]

Hehe, you can be a real ass sometimes Carter, but i have been around the Sim enough and know the themes well and respect least that choice of RP. I have had a few friends get wacked walking up to the city gates and got peeved and left the sim, but over all it is what makes most continue striving to RP here because they have to Rp so long to find it, it weeds out so many idiots sometimes (not to say they still dont pop up like weeds). I think it is stupid to sit and have a chit chat on the wall with someone asking how they got there or anymore how they got past the wall. I remeber for a while during the past war around the time of conflict with Fina it was shoot on sight near the walls haha.. it instilled fear into all and many quickly stayed off the path.

It is never going to be a 100% approved or proofed plan either way. But I rather deal with Treve being the ruthless and only spoken of in whispers city. You read the rules and theme in the skybox.. even if you miss that there is a nice reminder message on the path warning to enter own risk.. Short of putting big signs saying intruders shot on sight Im not sure what more you can do to give them fare warning haha.. Again.. sometimes it just an't their day.

[dana Tehani]

what Bella and Pay said... and........


How did she know it was Treve, last I checked we didnt have a sign on the door to say Treve?" grins " Also.. Treve is well guarded if someone is within the range of the door they are shot and killed.. no one can make it alive or leave once they found the path to Treve.. People have to realize they can not know the way to Treve.. its becoming ridiculous how many know the "way" to treve that's why I agree strongly with Carter that IC actions should be carried out so that people finally understand Treve is not to be  just found or discussed in open like that.

 I found it funny that a panther ended up in Treve yesterday and her reason was "I stumbled into the sewers". You cant "stumble" into the sewers in Minus.. its impossible cuz its well hidden and why would a panther travel alone.. and why would she go up all the way?.. Just think realistic here not that its easy to find things on radar. I was new to SL Gor when I came in and found Treve the same day!  Just saying, easily found on sim.. impossible realistically on Gor.. Which do we want to rp!?

Totally agree with you Lina and now two things can happen here when we face this situation

a) You can spend 30-minutes discussing with someone who basically couldnt give a fuck about the theme of Treve, Gor in general or any realism in RP and end up calling a mod to spend another 30-45 minutes discussing this them and get know where.

or....

b) You can dispatch them to the city of dusts with the comment.. tsk tsk just not your day is it 

option B is the recommended way forwarded, has been agreed with the council and additional warnings, notecards have been posted around.. NOBODY has an excuse for bitching and moaning that they didnt realise Treve is not a watered down gorean RP theme when it comes to dealing with strangers who IC threaten the safety of the city..

So let people have their little giggle and fun by saying they know where Treve is.

As I say to them..  "okay now tell me IC and lets see what happens" ... they soon remain quiet and forget they know where Treve is and soon stop inferring the have some secret map, because they know IC I will kill then.

Dont argue with people about IC things.. deal with them IC ... dont care how you got here, how you know..buybye and have fun in the after life !!!

Carter is much sexier when he is mean 

[Anarch Allegiere]

Okay, so 30 minutes of RP before offing someone.

That's what people weren't certain about. Quite a few, including myself, seemed to believe that the 30 minute RP wasn't necessary when it was regarding intruders of the city.

I must add that the two times I had to execute someone because of it, they weren't very happy OOC, even when in both cases I gave them much longer than 30 minutes. Guess next time I'll try to IM them a bit more in a friendly manner to guide them through the process. :p