Voice in Combat

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Caliway]

As a General rule, I hate the idea of using a voice based system (SL chat, Ventrilo, Skype) in a combat scenario.  I think there three major issues with it, I consider it a cheat, in a text based system like SL, I think it often lags you more, and I think, sometimes, some people don't want to simply speak, for one reason or another. 

However, all that being said, it was also pointed out to me, that a well organized raid can be easily handled when some one is over a voice system, keeping watch, and, in essence, Running the show.  It is also better to keep everyone on track when you don't have to stop fighting so constantly check your chat windows. 

I am curious if others have an opinion on this?

[Husam Darkfire]

Today’s military are able to use some pretty robust communication systems allowing for small teams to coordinate with each other as well as call for air support if needed. While I admit I have yet to make it through all of the books, I have not yet seen any evidence of the use of long range electronic communications devices among the goreans. If indeed there is no evidence of such capabilities being widely available to the average warrior, then would not the use in SL violate any BTB intent? Looking the other way and allowing the use of voice that might open the door to more of those fire spitting metal tarns.

My vote is keep it simple and as real as possible.

[Grondar Quartz]

I personally dont like to voice but the few raids we have done where somebody co ordinates by skype have been very succesful , however I too feel that it is a form of cheating along with tping in instant reinforcements when attacked, for instamce calling your allies when realistically it would take days for news of an attack to reach your them, but no I agree keep it simple keep it gorean , and I too have not seen any signs of radios avaulable to the normal warriors

[JF Kanto]

I would consider using voice cheating, for all the reasons already given.  It gives the raiding party an unfair advantage IHMO.  Plus, it does create lag.

[Victor Warilard]

I don't know that it creates lag when you use skype or ventrillo. I appreciate the arguments both for and against it so I do think a sim should say so in their rules if they don't want people using it. Obviously, there is no real way to know if someone is so you would have to trust their word. I have been in situations where we knew the other side was using voice and we weren't and that sucked.

Having done both, I would actually prefer using voice. Text based chat is unrealistic and every time someone sends you an IM it interferes with trying to fight. You are much better coordinated and the learning curve for new warriors is much faster. However, its use should not be hidden. If I know sim A does sue voice, then when we fight them we should use it too. If I know sim B doesn't and won't use it, then we shouldn't either. Perhaps this should be discussed when we establish ROE with other sims.

[Anarch Allegiere]

I'm not against it.

Next time people keep hanging around when we shout to retreat multiple times in chat... they'll get left behind!

[Brigand hancroft]

Trained good warriors don't need voice chat ,  skill and team work are valued over voice chat.   Yes I also consider using voice Cheating.

[Xaz Elephas]

I normally don't chime in on Treve business but if I may...

Back when we did the Black War, 12 BC vs Treve, gosh I think you guys had 20+ against us, what we did was spend a few days going over a plan. Each person knew what they needed to do. We had leaders, and we had followers. We divide into 3 groups. Each group knew excatly what they needed to do. We took treve day 1.  That night we divsed a plan to hold Treve. Who would cover what doors, down to who was to handle captaives. Each person did what they were suppose too. We held the city for 3 days with no issues. At no time was skype used.

If leaders lead and make battle plans, spend a few days on it and those below them follow and listen to there leaders, thats all you need. Trust me, it works. Communication is the key that each person knows exacatly what they are suppose to do and... they Do It!

[Brigand hancroft]

Xaz ,I fully agree with you on that. That is Exactly what I love about combat your team mates at work as a team in divisions. or just 4 well trained men can take down a entire city.  without using voice.  I rarely see that now adays.
because of the following points
I had men train without voice vs voice and I can tell you I was damn proud of them because they knew how to defend a city without voice.

1) not enough training as team or don't like training. Training should be fun.
2) commitment  you cant enforce commitment warriors want their free time too.
3) And honestly I think its abit of lazyness.

[Ashoka Mosely]

I don't consider voice as cheating at all.

Back in the day, we are shown numerous ways forces in Gor used communication systems covering large distances like blow horns, whistles like marshbirds.

Text based communication comparison is not a comparasion really, unless all combat becomes text based instead of metered.

Right now, meter combat is used and not text based. If we say, ok, no meter combat, only text. Then we can say, ok , communication should be text aswell and not through voice. SL Voice is a function of SL, just like short keys, hot keys, change in weapon. We dont text and write, " changing weapon from bow to sword " , " pulls out shield and sword and puts his bow back on his shoulder as he enters a melee preferred area" .. we use short keys. SL Voice is not a preferred method as it lags sims, msn also lags badly SL, so i think skype and the other one people use are ok.

[serene mistwood]

It would make no difference to my RP as I am not involved in combat but rather the captive ( or more likely the running away and not being captive ) RP side of wars and raids - but to me it sounds like godmodding of the highest order.

We dont use mini-maps or radars right?  Arent the very valid arguments against that the same as for voice chat?  What about the excitement and tension of not knowing who is round that corner, behind that door, over that wall...  I know lots of people do cheat and use them, but actually you are missing out on very intense and unpredicatable RP if you do.  I even go into mouselook sometimes just to add to the drama so i *have* to turn around to see who is behind me. (even tho it makes me feel seasick!)

The covering of large distances in keeping with Gor should be kept within a btb scenario I think.  Whistles and blowhorns can be used with the *shout* key - because lets face it, if you hear it on the battlefield, your enemy does too...  and allows each to react accordingly in a more realistic scenario.

Success in combat relies on PPPPP - perfect preperation prevents poor perfomance. ( my univeristy mentor used to ram that down my throat at every opportunity so now you are getting it  )   Train more, plan more, work together more before your raids, practice defence as well as offence. 

This is Gor with medieval type weapons and fuedal wars - not Call of Duty with sophisticated communications  technology

[Ashoka Mosely]

From a person whose used communication in fighting in GE sims and btb sims, I can say with 100% confidence, that while communication voice helps a great deal, it doesnt solve all the problems which practise perfection and all those things said above are required to do.

We talk about being realistic, but, Goreans did shout and talk during fighting even in Gor. This cant be done in SL Gor cos you need to get out of mouselook to type.

In midevil prehistoric and other planet times, there was communication during fighting.. in SL Gor, cant be done due to texts vs mouselook.

Where minimaps , radars, hot keys, ohoenix avatar profile search, etc are used, its silly to me to say these things are ok , but, communication is not. I mean.. what makes the former ok and not the later? Whose yardstick are we using? Who has the authority to have that yardstick?

Forums let us discuss this and its great we have this.

I don't consider voice as cheating, that is my opinion. 

[Husam Darkfire]

Success in combat relies on PPPPP - perfect preperation prevents poor perfomance. ( my univeristy mentor used to ram that down my throat at every opportunity so now you are getting it  )   

And here I was taught "Piss Poor Performance Prevents Perfection" *shrugs* 

[serene mistwood]

lol @ hussam.

I do see your point about the text v's mouselook.  But remember, in ancient warfare, which Gor undoubtedly follows, there would be someone running around with signals, banners and battle standards to relay communication and messages to the team.

Everyone beforehand would know what each signal or banner meant and how to act.. to rally, to retreat, to storm... Talking and shouting to each other wouldnt be heard over the clash of steel, the wounded and dying and the screaming of those free women being dragged onto tarns once fighting got under way.  Longer range signals then appeared like the musical instruments someone mentioned.. and then fire and smoke signals for longer range communication. 

I know I am an idealist but I would love to see this happening in wars on SL Gor.  I play btb as much as I can because I want it to be as authentic as possible.  Voice to me just seems a bit .. bleh.  Also, I do feel you will be losing people.. those that play a different gender no one knew about, those whose wives will be telling you to be quiet because she cant hear the TV as you shout "Chaaaaaaaaaaarge"...  and the headaches for moderators when the cry-babys shout invalid.. no logs to moderate with voice.. ouch. 

I really dont know what the yardstick is - popular opinon and/or  what the sim owner wants  as usual i guess.  On the opposite side of the track, I sure would like to listen to one on skype to hear the other side and perhaps be swayed 

[Ginger Shamrock]

Success in combat relies on PPPPP - perfect preperation prevents poor perfomance. ( my univeristy mentor used to ram that down my throat at every opportunity so now you are getting it  )   

And here I was taught "Piss Poor Performance Prevents Perfection" *shrugs* 

In the US Army (I was in the Medical Service Corps) the 6 P's were "Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance"