Captures end after a self-determined timeperiod of no active rp?

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May 2012

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[Laja DeCuir]

hmm...how do you think about some people, who declare the end of a capture after a self-determined timeperiod of no active rp? I heard about those peolple who even stated in their profils (which shouldn't bother in rp anyway) that they will declare the end of the capture if the one who did capture them doesn't pay attention to them for a timeperiod of f.e. 30 min. After that time of no rp'ing with them they will tp out.

[Falco Ashby]

I can accept that, when clearly stated in their Gor RP profile.
It is simply boring being capped and then left alone. PPL who are capturing someone should be aware of their responsibility.
Sometimes there are issues to leave captures alone, e.g. to give them time to think, to calm down...or when someone have to go offline, but this can be clearly posted and agreed in RP ((maybe in IM)). SO i dont mind ppl doing that, since i dont take a capture when i dont know what to do with them! Theres always the possibility ti just left them alone, bound

[Sylvie Munro]

It's simple: If i see something like that in a profile, i stop RP with them.
It happend two times to me that i came back from an other RP and the captive left because of such silly "self made rules". Hey, i can't be at two places at one time, and i'm not an entertainer, i'm doing RP. And in RP, as the captivator it is MY decission how to handle a captive.


In one case, i came back from a fight(!) into the kennel just to recieve the message: "Sorry Sylvie, you are to late. The 30 minutes are over and my En called me back, be well". She was right, i was 5 minutes too late. Many thanks for such "beautifull" RP ...

[Keira Wilder]

It's a silly "rule" to end captivity like that.
So to get out of captivity I simply log in at night when my captor is sleeping... wait 30 minutes and then TP out.
Superb.

Sometimes it can happen that you will be tied up by something else.
That can happen to everyone.
I always try to make captivity as "amusing" for the captive as possible. If I can see that I will be tied up with other things I will give the captive the chance to escape or simply let them go.
But sometimes an "interruption" should be ok. And if it is 30 minutes or an hour, so be it.

But those people with the 30 minute rule in their profile usualy also have things like, "no hair cutting, no kissing, no stroking, no shoe cleaning, no RP in trousers, no skirts, no silks, no collar".... come on... do we play the same RP?

Should I get them a wheelchair?

RP with people like that mostly ends after 2 minutes anyway as they will call for help via IM. 

[Guru Randwick]

hmm...how do you think about some people, who declare the end of a capture after a self-determined timeperiod of no active rp? I heard about those peolple who even stated in their profils (which shouldn't bother in rp anyway) that they will declare the end of the capture if the one who did capture them doesn't pay attention to them for a timeperiod of f.e. 30 min. After that time of no rp'ing with them they will tp out.

I think: This is bullshit, and I never will accept it. The reason is simple: It's not Gor.

Let's assume someone is left alone for days, even if this is a bad thing, (I never would do such a thing, get me right in this!). Nevertheless let's assume it happens. There are 100ds of possibilities to rp oneself out of this situation, be legal, even good rp! (I remember a happening I had some long time ago. I was captured by some Panthers, was then undressed and closed into a cage. As they did not know what to do with me, they left me alone and discussed for more than an hour what they should do with me. Well after an hour I had enough. I started crashing the cage in open chat, by doing rp in open chat, IC.Finally I was full of blood and blue spots all over, but I managed to open that gate, could escape, run home, (all naked of course ). When the Panthers became aware of my escape, they 1st reacted a bit astonished ooc .... But when I showed them my scroll, then they agreed, ad even fun, last but not least I guess they learned something  )

Back to the topic: If someone would act like it's written in the profile, I would ban that player, it's that simple. However: Profile informations are not to be considered in rp.

[Kaile Oconnell]

To me, it seems quite simple.

If I am captured and there's someone around, I'll RP with them. If there's no one around, I'll solo RP my own emotions (angst, frustrations, rage etc) until I grow bored. Being from a different timezone, I often log on to find that there's only two or three people in an entire sim, so solo RP is not uncommon. It helps to develop the RP that comes later on by getting into character. However, there is only so much one can do by oneself.

So, once I've exhausted these avenues, I'll simply TP out of Gor and go and play somewhere else or just go exploring. If the person who capped me comes online, I can quickly TP back to where I'm tied up. 

As to people who can't stand being alone for 1/2 an hour even when the sim rules say either 24 hours, 3 days or permanent?  I don't know. I really think they're depriving themselves of a great opportunity for quality solo RP. They will ultimately be the poorer for it, even though in their depravity, they know not what they lack.

Personally, I don't think that the time limits mean a "Free Pass" to freedom. They are just a recommendation for when the captured person should be allowed a greater chance to escape. If they refuse to escape, they're obviously seeking a collar, eh? 

[QaPla]

This has been a trend recently in profiles for some time now.  I have no IDEA what gives them a right to say, I will leave the RP.  You are captured, sit there and be mad.  It is my opinion that the only acts that should hodl consent are sexual ones.

Panther profiles that read:  Do not cut my hair!!  I do not accept mutilations!!( oh wait, they can be killed...is that not mutilation?)  make me want to enter in my profile:

You may not call me male!!  you can not bite my ankle from the bindings!! 

People cry for RP, then want to limit it.  We ban those people in Haskins.  People say, oh well you sit alone.  No, the ones that do come, are proper RP people and it is fun for all.

Q

[Kilthoran Lundquist]

I personally have no problem with the 30-minutes rule and I believe it is a good one.
After all I am here to have fun and enjoy my time. When I shoot someone down I look at my schedule and decide if I have enough time for a captive. Because equal to Kajirae, Captives are not a sign of your greatness that you achieve and then place in your trophy room without ever looking at them again.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying it is good or just to TP out after 31 minutes when you see the one that took you captive already coming through the door. Much more following my taste would it be to state: "If I am captive and no one engages in further roleplay, I reserve the right to end the roleplay after a certain time"
But then people transport out after 5 minutes...so it is not really an option.

But what to do when someone attacks you and you shoot him down and have to time for further roleplay? Well I did it a lot of times already, that I would just let them lie where they are. Giving them a warning never to come after you again. It is not needed to always always capture people.

 

[Kaile Oconnell]

Oh! I like that last bit, Kilthoran. 

In fact, instead of capturing them, you could strip them and take their clothing with you saying, "I have your scent. If you leave now, you may escape my sleen when I release them to hunt in an ahn's time!"

Does anyone know where you can buy attack sleen? I've had them set on me once and they were bloody hard to kill.

[QaPla]

I 100% disagree.  Where is the consequence to your action?  That is the issue today in Gorean RP.  There is consequence.  It is go do whatever you want, and when YOU feel you should go, leave.  That is complete crap.

Unfortunately, these arguments will never be solved.  If you want a Gorean sim, there are consequences.  Most sims should call them selves, Gor-like.

Q

[Kilthoran Lundquist]

Yes QuPla, I absolutly agree with you. I would like to play on a Gor-like or Gor-themed SIM, not on a Gorean SIM. I respect the other opinion absolutly and if someone is up to really be where ever the roleplay takes him/her I am very fine with it. And I believe we would not quarrel of this difference in opionen...after all communication is all.

[Sylvie Munro]

Gor-like, Gor-Themed? That old story? What IS Gor, what does it mean? Ask 10 people to get 10 answers. Gor is a harsh, medival World, mostly ruled by man with a center on slavery... point! And as QaPla said: There is consequence! To build up some rules like "after 30 Minutes without RP, i TP out" has nothing to do with RP, it is simply mixing OOC with IC.

What does it mean to be captured? It does NOT simply mean to be bound to a cross and have some silly games... To be captured does also not mean to be entertained. And if the one who won decides to let the captive alone, it's up to him/her.

[Kaile Oconnell]

Truly, it is said, that indifference is the worst torture a Master can do to his slave. 

As you say, QaPla, consequence is very important.

Without it, without the fear of capture, the fear of death or eternal enslavement, where is the meaning? I deplore the CARP aspect of SL Gor. If I get caught, expect me to resist with every fibre of my being. If you think you've crushed my spirit by dangling me over a sleen, just wait until your back is turned when we're alone. If my escape attempt fails, I expect to be killed (and, admittedly, to start a new life somewhere else). Without consequence, how can one be brave?

[Gods! I wish there was some unarmed combat mods for the meters. I keep seeing kick and punch damage and wondering how the hell I get to do that? I've never yet seen a wrestling or boxing HUD or whatever. RPing HTH combat seems to be the only way to go - and at least it is silent. ]

Without this fear, how great can the rewards of good RP really be? What's the point of a kajira trying to gain her master's esteem and earn her freedom if it comes automatically? 

What was relatively rare in Gor (freeing a slave) has now become commonplace.

That said, if all captures are permanent, we're very quickly going to wind up with 5% Free and 95% Slaves. Even if there's some manumission from sterling roleplay, how much effect do you think that is going to have on this proportion? There is a very definite need for balance and at the moment, the limited time capture is the only thing which is maintaining that balance and keeping the numbers of the free relatively high.

But perhaps, in order to see the bigger picture here, it is necessary to take a step back. The focus of many of these arguments has generally been directed on the one captured. On the lame attitude that brings them to opt out when it suits them - as if the onus of responsibility for good RP rests entirely on their shoulders.

Well, it doesn't. Roleplay is a cooperative engagment.

But what I'm not about to do here is engage in the blame game and start hammering the person doing the capturing. Let's just get away from that modality entirely.

Rather, lets look at what's actually going on here. How can it come to pass that a new slave, fresh to the collar, is left alone for extended periods of time?  Completely alone?

How can this be?

Because there aren't many extended households in SL Gor. Rather, we have small nuclear familiar (which is, I think, a Roman term for a household of slaves). People live in what are usually small apartments (if they're lucky!) that don't allow for much build up of RP momentum. There'll be a FM, a FW and one or two slaves at most. And half the time they're not all online together.  Hence, the only place for a new slave to get quality RP when they are fresh to the collar is at the hands of their new masters or at the hands of the local Slaver.

New slaves should be experiencing, IMHO, the camraderie, jealousy, cruelty and indifference of *other* slaves AND the desires or indifference of local guards and free persons of a household.

The Gor of the books is full of "Houses" - of patrons and their hirelings and henchmen.  It is the lack of this dynamic that is at the root of our problems here. If we had this dynamic, it simply wouldn't be possible for a new slave to be left alone for long enough to feel unwanted (and thus maybe feel the need to TP out).

So, the real question here, is not how to bring bored RP'ers back into line, but how to improve the game for everyone. How do we create working households in the various Gor sims? I know there are a few of them out there.

[Keira Wilder]

[Gods! I wish there was some unarmed combat mods for the meters. I keep seeing kick and punch damage and wondering how the hell I get to do that? I've never yet seen a wrestling or boxing HUD or whatever. RPing HTH combat seems to be the only way to go - and at least it is silent. ]

The GCS had a built in hand-to-hand combat mode.
And Harbinger offers a hand-to-hand combat "attachement".

The Gor of the books is full of "Houses" - of patrons and their hirelings and henchmen.  It is the lack of this dynamic that is at the root of our problems here. If we had this dynamic, it simply wouldn't be possible for a new slave to be left alone for long enough to feel unwanted (and thus maybe feel the need to TP out).

So, the real question here, is not how to bring bored RP'ers back into line, but how to improve the game for everyone. How do we create working households in the various Gor sims? I know there are a few of them out there.

* Keira Wilder nods

Aye, exactly.
I have a quite large household... plus I am Slaver of Sand Sleen... and the city slaves spend most of their time there as well...
People keep asking me how I manage to take care of so many slaves...
... but I have to ask in return... how do you manage to keep this one lonely slave happy?

My girls learn with and from each other, quarrel with each other, love each other, are jealous of each other... there is so many things they can do when there is more than just one lonely kajira sitting at the window waiting for their Master.

[Zelmo Boucher]

The thing is: Do people you have shot or captured the right on entertainment? Do you have to keep them busy as a kind of duty after a combat? I say: No. Being captured or capturing is often a result of a battle. Of course it might get boring in a kennel and one usually keeps an eye on prisoners NOT to get bored, but: I hate those 30-minutes-terms. It might be different if you capture someone alone, if you have the desire to have her or him. Then - of course - capture is the beginning of a further roleplay. But honestly: the 30-minute-terms often remind me on a Kurt Cobain quote: "Here we are now, entertain us" and on force RP: "You have to, if not..." And thats not really entertaining for me...