The treatment of prisoners....the btb way

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Ganesh Westland]

Okay, I have come across a certain behaviour lately far too often, and personally find it far too annoying to just ignore it. Lately, whenever we have captive warriors in the cells, they issue challenges to us. "Duel me, if I win I am free, if you win you can kill me"

I find that rather ridiculous. Why would I, as a warrior, accept a challenge from a defeated warrior? Shouldnt they be rather ashamed of their defeat? Instead of demanding spoils like paga, and an easy way out of their fate, which would in my eyes be more along the lines of a collar or death? I mean, i have no intention of dictating anyone how to play their char..but if in 90% of the situations I am challenged, and upon telling them they had their chance to fight but lost, I get called a coward..it really takes the fun out of capture rp of that sort. I know a warrior has to accept every challenge, but really?

How do you think a captive warrior should be treated? Mind you, i strive to play as close to the books as I possibly can, and im always willing to learn.

[Anarch Allegiere]

I agree... It's one of the main things that annoyed me too. It's something that came over from GE sims where in 50% of the case they'll either sail a group if it turns out their entire "fighting force" is in captivity... and in the other 49% of the cases just want to get rid of captives as soon as possible if they're not attractive enough to rape.

Guys rarely enjoy to RP guys in captivity, and in BtB Gor it's obviously mostly only guys that end up in captivity. Solution? Kill em... tell em they can pretend it was someone else that ended up dead and send em back home where they can reset their meter and continue their jolly lifes... I think for alot of guys it is the umpteenth time they ended up captured and just are bored with that RP... so in alot of cases they'll fake afk, or just TP out, log out, go do something else and log back in in a few hours.

Trading, dueling... it are in most cases compromises for the fact that nobody likes to see their characters killed off... and that few people really enjoy to RP with a man in captivity.



Another duality in SL Gor is that 90% of the men don't like to RP being captured. The main reason why guys go out to raid in SL Gor, is because they like the prospect of treating new flesh, a new, by them untouched women, as their new little pleasure slave for the night.

Raiders love to make captives, but don't like ending up captured... I guess it's one of those things that women silently accept the "unfairness" of...

Guy captured in alot of cases = not interested / fake afk / log out / TP away / exaggurate RP to escape captivity
Women captured in alot of cases = expected to enjoy RP her raping

[Ganesh Westland]

But thats what im trying to avoid..the usual killing off captives just for the sake of getting rid of them. I mean..if we have a dozen warriors captured..I usually get rid of 2 or 3, the ones that clearly are not up for any RP. But for the remaining ones..I do try to start something that goes beyond killing..Like a collar, like roleplayed hard labour..something that was described in the books as the fate of defeated warriors.

I guess you are right, its not the kind of RP men enjoy. But to hell with them..dont like the possibility of a collar..dont attack my city.

[Anarch Allegiere]

And 9 out of 10 times if you keep a male captive around they'll just figure out fantasic / magical ways of how to escape. Manage to pull weapons out of their ass... and still end up getting what they came for, even if their raid failed... Kidnapping a FW or slave while they escape.

Sensible men in SL Gor are a rarity. 90% of them are idiots, cheaters, whiners, one-liner-click my prim-cock and poseballs to jerk off-RPers, whatever... Add to that the fact that you're wearing the Treve-tag which seems to give a majority of male RPers across SL Gor the excuse to claim you're all rapists and cheaters... and gives them that extra little bit of motivation to get out of captivity in unsuitable ways.

[Isabella Bergiere]

Can't we just give caps the choice OOCly?

Those that want to be killed -  we can kill.

Those that want RP - we will think of inventive things to do with them.

I like the idea of making them fight one another for our amusement.  As a FW Scribe I'm unlikely to go RP with caps tete-a-tete and so bringing them up to the arena and providing sport for the Trevans sounds fun to me.
I certainly wouldn't go to Minus to RP with caps but I wouldn't be adverse if you wanted to bring a few up in chains to do some chores for me


RE the big debate on how prisoners should be treated.   I am in agreement that they should be held in disgrace, they are failures.

However I am not so sure that they need to become the laughing stock of a whole sim -  sure slaves were used to goad in the books but I think it's important not to let it get out of hand

[Ganesh Westland]

lol anarch, you really made some bad expiriences man. I havent seen too much of that shit in Treve yet..And those are usually the ones i kill off rather fast.

@Bella.. i know what you mean, and absolutely agree. I´ve brought 2 captives collared to treve to fight each other once. It ended up with me beeing yelled how I could dare to enslave warriors. And the guys didnt really play along. Next time, i´ll just use one fighting a larl.. xD

[Isabella Bergiere]

I really do not see anything wrong with collaring captives - male and female.

I just finished reading Tribesman and all of the captured men (albeit they are Taharian) were taken as slave without much fuss!

From an OOC respect point of view I would hold off branding all of them as thats something that drastically affects their character -  but collaring and putting to work I see no harm in.

Collaring them also removes the 'slaves should not disrepect Free' argument.

Perhaps we should IM each cap and ask them if they want to be killed straightaway or RP'd.  That way OOC wishes are respected and no-one is forced to endure RP they hate or come up with fantastic lock pick from orifice scenarios.

Of course some people might hate being asked their preference hehe!   You can't please everyone though

[Isabella Bergiere]

.   ooops double post

[Ganesh Westland]

I like the idea of giving them a choice beforehand. Let me talk to Mal and Vic about that one!

[Anarch Allegiere]

I remember when we brought 2 captives to the arena in Treve... I ended up dead and they fled.

I remember bringing 3 captives to the arena in Treve... we had to pew pew them down 3 times before they'd stop attacking the crowd instead of eachother and the 4th time they all 3 just super-jumped out of the arena and fled for the hills.

I remember when I brought a captive to the cells in Treve, because we were gonna RP longterm as was agreed with him in OOC, I go afk for 10 minutes and come back to see that he managed to flee along with one of the city-slaves as captive.

I remember bringing a captive to the city... I chained him outside on the city-square, people mostly ignored him. (Generally people don't like enjoy RPing captive males either). He TPed out after 30 minutes of not getting any RP which he liked.

I don't remember any single male captive brought to the city that didn't end up causing more trouble instead...

And everytime they do manage to fantastically escape they return with having knowledge of the location of the city of Treve...

I've RPed out hours and hours of captivity and executions one after the other because of raids. I rarely see any other guys ever RPing such a thing without whining or drama... like I said, guys that RP out their captivity fairly are a rarity. I think almost every guy in SL Gor realizes this, and it might explain why they're so eager to call FW or slaves that -do- play out their captivity: Cap Whores.

[serene mistwood]

Lately, whenever we have captive warriors in the cells, they issue challenges to us. "Duel me, if I win I am free, if you win you can kill me"

My own perspective here would be that any Warrior defeated in battle already, and with his weapons taken, would no longer have the right to challenge another.  In effect, he is now an *unarmed* man, and *a warrior will seldom attack an unarmed adversary. It is disapproved of in the codes.*  Canjellne is for kajira, not captive Warriors.

These men captives  should be collared and put to fight in the arenas against each other !!!.  The first time I ever went to Treve (hooded) was with Xaz a long time ago when part of the Black Caste camp there on my slave alt, and it was to the arena where a captive was having to fight a larl..  It was a great spectacle. 

And thats not just because I want to watch them almost naked clashing steel, muscles bulging, covered in a sheen of sweat.... .     *fans herself*

[Isabella Bergiere]

I rarely see any other guys ever RPing such a thing without whining or drama... like I said, guys that RP out their captivity fairly are a rarity. I think almost every guy in SL Gor realizes this, and it might explain why they're so eager to call FW or slaves that -do- play out their captivity: Cap Whores.

This is the term I hate most of all in SL Gor and I have never actually been capped.

It enrages me when guys call FW/slaves this and then go pick up panthers or get capped by panthers or cap their own bit of fluff for some raping.

I don't care if people enjoy the kink of cap RP - with the right guy and a good RP spark I can imagine it could be pretty intense.
It's their business and ooc labels like this irritate me beyond belief and make even me terrified of being capped incase someone accuses me of seeking it.
I love being caught up in a raid and the little adrenalin rush of runing away etc.

If people get on their high horse about FW/slaves hanging around the hot spots then it ought to be dealt with IC by their guardians/masters.

rant over

[Victor Warilard]

I don’t agree with giving them a choice about being killed or rp etc.; it takes away the consequences of losing. If you lose, your captor decides. If you don’t like it then don’t fight.

I think one of the worst things you can do is just throw the captives in a cell. It is boring and no wonder that some make magical escapes. Killing isn’t much better—it is crappy rp and a chicken shit way out.

Capture rp can be a lot of fun for all parties involved with just a little creativity. I have often said I would rather be capped by a good role-player than to cap a bad one. Unfortunately, the rp prevention committee tries to limit this with some of the most ridiculous onlinisms that must come from notecards somewhere because they certainly don’t come from any of the books.:

-   You can’t enslave warriors. What nonsense! How many times was Tarl enslaved, forced to work in the salt mines, the galley of a ship etc. When a warrior lost they were fair game.
-   Slaves couldn’t disrespect the free. Again, this is stupid. They are captives and not “free”. Rask was taunted by a slave when he was capped. Tarl was treated like a male pleasure slave (and had not been collared), ordered about like a slave with the plan of being used by a FW.
-   You had to collar and/or brand them first before they could be treated like slaves. This is so stupid I have to wonder about the IQ of the people who believe this. How many times was Tarl captured, treated like a slave and not collared? I have read 12 of the books and even when he was collared, don’t remember him ever being branded. Yet he was forced to work in the galley of a ship just like a slave, the salt mine just like a slave, a work project building a wall etc.

Again—wake up people! Captives have no rights. There is no Geneva Convention in Gor for prisoners and warriors didn’t get tea and cookies in the cells. Bad things happened so get over it! Once you put aside all this crap that is a bunch of rp killers, everyone can actually have a lot of fun.

The ones who sit on the sidelines wanting to dictate how others should rp the captives are typically the ones who would just as soon throw the captives in a cell and forget them. Unless they want to take the initiative with a creative idea for role-play, they should be ignored.

[Victor Warilard]

I rarely see any other guys ever RPing such a thing without whining or drama... like I said, guys that RP out their captivity fairly are a rarity. I think almost every guy in SL Gor realizes this, and it might explain why they're so eager to call FW or slaves that -do- play out their captivity: Cap Whores.

This is the term I hate most of all in SL Gor and I have never actually been capped.

It enrages me when guys call FW/slaves this and then go pick up panthers or get capped by panthers or cap their own bit of fluff for some raping.

I don't care if people enjoy the kink of cap RP - with the right guy and a good RP spark I can imagine it could be pretty intense.
It's their business and ooc labels like this irritate me beyond belief and make even me terrified of being capped incase someone accuses me of seeking it.
I love being caught up in a raid and the little adrenalin rush of runing away etc.

If people get on their high horse about FW/slaves hanging around the hot spots then it ought to be dealt with IC by their guardians/masters.

rant over

I admit something I really enjoy is keeping the FW, slave or panther girl I have capped for a longer period while their BF/Master/Companion gets really jealous and goes berserk. One idiot paid a 10k linden bounty on Gorean’s Most Wanted to have my alt killed (on a GE sim) because he was so enraged. Since no one capped me, I got the bounty instead.

[Isabella Bergiere]

I don’t agree with giving them a choice about being killed or rp etc.; it takes away the consequences of losing. If you lose, your captor decides. If you don’t like it then don’t fight.

yeah but why bother with a guy who quite clearly doesn't want to RP a cap scenario - let them FTB if they want/ be killed.

Otherwise we just get whining and miraculous escapes.


I agree with the rest though - caps are fair game for us to do with as we like