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Author Topic: Kanda is a stimulant - NOT a painkiller!  (Read 8029 times)
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Betony Baryl
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« 23. March 2011, 18:09:09 »
One of the biggest onlineisms in SL Gor is the use of kanda as a medicine.  Even some Greens rp using kanda as a painkiller. Ugh!  And many Greens think it is similiar to an opiate.  WRONG!  Kanda is a stimulant.  I liken it to the Coca leaf of S America that has a cocaine alkaloid.

Kanda was NEVER used to medicate in the books. Though it wasn't illegal it was considered undesirable because it was highly addictive.  Goreans associated kanda mostly with poison.  There are many references in the book to kanda as a poison and just a few references to its use as a "recreational" drug. It would be costly as it was only grown in the Tahari. There are quotes that most of the users were Southern.

QUOTE
Tobacco is unknown on Gor, though there are certain vices or habits to take its place, in particular the stimulation afforded by chewing on the leaves of the Kanda plant, the roots of which, oddly enough, when ground and dried, constitute an extremely deadly poison.
Priest Kings of Gor 3:24

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Betony Baryl
Husam Darkfire
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« 23. March 2011, 20:53:21 »
Will it eliminate lag?
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Claude Belgar
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« 23. March 2011, 22:40:40 »
I disagree, kanda IS a painkiller. let me explain.

1. Consume kanda.

2. Jump all around the place due to the stimulant effect of the kanda.

3. Hit the head hard, knocking itself out, thus not experiencing pain anymore… at least until you woke up.

Thank you for your attention  Cheesy
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dana Tehani
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« 23. March 2011, 23:03:43 »
I like this drug!  Grin
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« 24. March 2011, 06:05:33 »
*Remembers the kanda smoking circle and just smiles like an idiot*  Grin
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Xaz Elephas
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« 24. March 2011, 06:14:14 »
I agree and always find it funny when I see a Healer using it as a drug:

The roots of the kanda plant, which grows largely in desert regions on Gor, are extremely toxic, but, surprisingly, the rolled leaves of this plant, which are relatively innocuous, are formed into strings and, chewed or sucked, are much favored by many Goreans, particularly in the southern hemisphere, where the leaf is more abundant.

-Nomads of Gor, pg. 43
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Morgan Daxter
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« 30. March 2011, 16:17:59 »
Really? Makes me mad that there is so much misinformation on the net. I was looking for a Gorean painkiller and a bunch of sites listed Kanda. Are there any GOOD sites on herbal remedies and such I could read so I don't sound silly next time?
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Krysta Winslet
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« 30. March 2011, 19:53:54 »
Morgan, I guess it isn't a *pain killer* but here is some info on kanda, it is like the coco plant which of course like cocaine, and well uhm i am not a user but i have had it in the past and can say that the numbing effect would cure headache! Laughs, but anyway here ya go hope this helps.

Kanda
A shrub of the Gorean deserts whose roots hold a lethal poison.   Kanda leaves have a strong, addictive narcotic effect that may make this plant a cousin of the Earth Coca plant. An extremely potent poison is extracted from the roots of the kanda plant, and used to coat the tips of various weapons; it is mentioned on numerous occasions, be it on the tip of the pins free women sometimes hide in their hair, on the tips of arrows, hidden in various items of jewelry or literally dropped by the barrel in water reservoirs as is seen in Tarnsman of Gor, during the siege of Ar. The effect of kanda is said to be extremely rapid.

Most was I surprised to find him holding a tiny, round pipe from which curled a bright wisp of smoke. Tobacco is unknown on Gor, though there are certain vices or habits to take its place, in particular the stimulation afforded by chewing on the leaves of the Kanda plant, the roots of which, oddly enough, when ground and dried, constitute an extremely deadly poison.
--Priest-Kings of Gor, 3:24

...Kutaituchik absently reached into a small golden box near his right knee and drew out a string of rolled kanda leaf.

The roots of the kanda plant, which grows largely in desert regions on Gor, are extremely toxic, but, surprisingly, the rolled leaves of this plant, which are relatively innocuous, are formed into strings and, chewed or sucked, are much favored by many Goreans, particularly in the southern hemisphere, where the leaf is more abundant.

Kutaituchik, not taking his eyes off us, thrust one end of the green kanda string in the left side of his mouth and, very slowly, began to chew it....
--Nomads of Gor, 7:43

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Krysta Winslet
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« 30. March 2011, 19:54:52 »
Then again, in this reference it is related to tobacco.. so, hmmm
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serene mistwood
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« 30. March 2011, 20:42:23 »
Kanda was described as having narcotic effects, the opposite of a stimulant - and cocaine is a stimulant so I am not sure where this conclusion comes from really relating it to coco leaves.   ( unless you dont realise it was mistakenly listed as a narcotic in a legal context ).   Huh





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Dina Vaniva
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« 30. March 2011, 22:30:12 »
Hi Morgan - you ask for good references - this site is all real quotes and you can use it not just for physicians, but about everything really Smiley

http://goreanreference.50megs.com/castes/castephysician.html
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Betony Baryl
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« 31. March 2011, 01:46:54 »
Definition of narcotic - any  psychoactive compound with sleep-inducing properties. But I have found that to many people the word narcotic gets confused with psychotropic (a chemical substance that crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it affects brain function, resulting in changes in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, and behavior.)

This is from the Physician's Caste of Gor: The arguments in favor of using it usually specify that it would be used with caution, as would any other controlled substance. Based on the information in the books about the herb, similarities can be drawn with other narcotic herbal stimulants, including the following:

This is from the Gorean Reference Website: From kanda we get poison from the roots, and a sort of stimulating, narcotic chewing tobacco from the leaves. Neither offers much value medically to the advanced caste of Physicians.

This was actually an interesting research Serene.  I too was confused by what narcotic meant and it's possible Norman didn't fully understand the word either.  So yes, there is a reference about it being a narcotic.  But I lean heavier towards it being a stimulant as that word isn't as easily confused.  The quote from the Priest Kings is what I base my belief on:

Tobacco is unknown on Gor, though there are certain vices or habits to take its place, in particular the stimulation afforded by chewing on the leaves of the Kanda plant, the roots of which, oddly enough, when ground and dried, constitute an extremely deadly poison.
Priest Kings of Gor 3:24

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!



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Betony Baryl
serene mistwood
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« 31. March 2011, 02:29:51 »
I think you are right - perhaps Norman did get confused about the meaning too ( much as I try to boost his academic reputation the man doesnt make it easy sometimes haha ).

There are another few quotes though that make me think he meant it to be a narcotic effect rather than a stimulant ...

"...need it as other men might want gold, or others power and women, or others the rolled, narcotic strings of toxic kanda." (Assassin of Gor, p.27) ...

"As I followed him from the dias I had seen Kutaotuchik, the interview ended, absently reaching into the small golden box of kanda strings, his eyes slowly beginning to close." (Nomads of Gor, p.62)

and the continued ending of Krystens quote :

"Now, from the right side of his mouth, thin, black and wet, there emerged the chewed string of kanda, a quarter of an inch at a time, slowly.  The drooping eyes, glazed, regarded us." (Nomads of Gor, p.44)

When Dove played out her kanda addiction to Xaz's chocolate beans, she played it out as lethargic, sleepy, sinking deeper and deeper into her cushions every day (not that she doesnt like to wallow anyway  Wink).  We found her almost comatose. Not stimulated at all.   I believe this was correct - but like anything in Gor its all perspective.  With that in mind, I would be happy to RP either scenario in RP, even using it as medication.  If someone is acting as if they just snorted a few lines of blow and is being hperactive I can roll with that too.. 

 "not much value" doesnt mean "no value" - and like any doctor on earth, all Physicians would have their own personality as well as their training.  Not every wound care nurse on earth uses the same type of dressing to treat the same type of wound after all  Cheesy



« Last Edit: 31. March 2011, 02:38:30 by serene mistwood » Logged
Betony Baryl
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« 31. March 2011, 06:03:14 »
When I brought up Norman's confusion of terms with a friend, he said that Norman never had a beer until some time in his 40's; which suggests some naivete about mind altering substances (I don't know his source)  My friend also brought up that folks could confuse the word narcotics if you think about the police Narcotics Division which targets both opiates and stimulants . .  whatever is illegal.

I believe that Norman was naive about drugs and certainly back when he was writing most of the books, the general populace didn't have the knowledge they have now about illegal drugs and/or the healing properties of herbs. We now know the Coca leaf the Andeans chew isn't as powerful a stimulant as many thought years ago.  Drugs were scary and little was published for the public back then.

Anyway, having been reminded of some of the descriptions of the kanda user's eyes being glazed over and drooping I nosed around some websites and here is what I found:

http://www.drugfree.org/drug-guide/cocainecrack
The faster the absorption, the more intense the high. However, the faster the absorption, the shorter the high lasts.  The high from snorting may last 15 to 30 minutes, while that from smoking crack cocaine may last 5 to 10 minutes. Cocaine’s effects are short lived, and once the drug leaves the brain, the user experiences a “coke crash” that includes depression, irritability, and fatigue.

So at first, a user is alert and highly stimulated; within a short time they crash and become lethargic.  I think it's fair to say the eyes of most drug users might be glazed over no matter the substance if its usage was heavy or long term session.  ?  A long bout of sleepless drug using . . .?   And if you've ever seen a chronic user of crack, meth or amphetamines . . they are hardly the picture of an energetic, alert human.  Wasted.

Or was Norman just confused?  Mixed references for drugs that were both stimulants and opiates not realizing how very different they are? 

Sighs.  For the longest time I subscribed to the opiate belief; but the words stimulant and leaves (suggesting the Coca leaf) made me think . . naw  . . I think stimulant. 

I wouldn't be offended by either version being role played.  However, I can say with absolute certainly that kanda was never used as medicine and that role play would offend.  LOL Grin

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Betony Baryl
serene mistwood
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« 31. March 2011, 06:36:03 »
EEEK !!  - that description was for crack cocaine,  Goreans didnt freebase, they simply chewed the leaves so is totally irrelevant (that and the fact crack has only been around since the mid 1980's.)  The leaves offer a mild stimulant and europhic effect only. 

I am firmly in the opiate EFFECTS camp,  but as even alcohol can affect people differently, I can accept both in RP.   Wink

As for it not being used for medicinal purposes, I think thats another example of absence without proof is not proof of absence.   Again, the " not much value  " does not mean no value to me .  I can live with the plausability it perhaps was used even if it wasnt written about "in the spirit".  And rememer - neither were panties, but you had them on in the bathouse a few weeks ago!  Grin

There is also no evidence it is addictive when taken as chewing the leaf as kanda is in the books !!!!

" Absorption of cocaine from the leaf is much less rapid and efficient than from the purified forms of cocaine, and it does not cause the euphoric and psychoactive effects associated with use of the drug. Some proponents have claimed that cocaine itself is not an active ingredient when unprocessed coca leaf is chewed or brewed as an infusion. However, studies have shown that small but measurable amounts of cocaine are present in the bloodstream after consumption of coca tea.[2] Addiction or other deleterious effects from the consumption of the leaf in its natural form have not been documented. "

Dr. Jerome H. Jaffe wrote: "it is reported that two million Peruvians who live in the Andean highlands, or 90 percent of the adult male population, consume ... cocaine . . . in the form of coca leaves. In view of the fact that many of these highlanders, who have chewed coca leaves for years, abandon the practice when transferred to a lower altitude, it does not seem appropriate to call this use of cocaine an addiction ."

Grins and wanders off singing to ...   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtwT492YDvg&feature=related    Wink



 



« Last Edit: 31. March 2011, 07:31:55 by serene mistwood » Logged
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