Regarding Naval Battle

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May 2012

Su	Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa
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6	7	8	9	10	11	12
13	14	15	16	17	18	19
20	21	22	23	24	25	26
27	28	29	30	31
______ Holidays ______
May 28 - Memorial Day

[dana Tehani]

We had the battle today which was good. However, it was decided to make it a mock raid by *all* involved sim admins.

Here are somethings to clear out confusions:

** The ratios were off but not cuz the mods didnt count them. Each part did and we had a 23 (port JAd) Vs 20 (Treve) and a 1:1 ratio. Sadly however, seems 6 of counted men decided to take another route and aid the enemy, which threw the numbers off completely to 29 vs 14. This was not conveyed to us oocly and thus none of us predicted nor expected it ooc. We did not invalidate it but a decision was made by all sims involved to redo the rp and count this as a good way for us to learn.

** Another issue is unbinding. Self unbinding is not allowed but if you are bound, please do not unbind others.. its not possible. This will be added to rules.

Having said that.. this rp mostly has been wonderful and here is some great points this rp has enabled us:

** Strong ties with other sims especially Jad, Nyuki & Turia. They have been most co-operative and helpful ooc.

** The sim had up to 80 people in it!! It was really great and due to watching scripts, we had some lag but not overly so much!

** People were very co-operative and quick learning on how to reduce lag and their scripts.. Well done guys!!

** Learned much about naval battle. For next time it was decide all men from both sides will be at the battle boats, leaving women only at the ship which should make it into a longer and more fun fight. Should the enemy make it through our fierce men they can then go after the big ship.

** Any captures can be rescued by Treve within few hours of the sea battle.

** The boats are simply awesome. They are not too difficult to use but quite the fun! I was impressed with how the men steered and used them.. Quick learners!

** The rp with this naval battle has been wonderful and we hope for at least a month rp after it.

Overall, we are very happy with the success of this rp and we will redo it next Weekend. Please be aware the last battle isnt counted as something IC but OOC for our own learning. So far, I had good feedback and people wishing to redo it.

Sunday 03/04/2011

At 12:30pm slt we start tp people in. Watch scripts again.. We had a lot of people coming so we will have to do a list again. If anyone is interested please IM Dana Tehani. Betony Baryl or Isabella Bergiere.

At 1330 SLT the battle will start.

Rules the same but no unbinding when you are bound will be added. If you are bound you are disabled and can not do much unless someone who is not bound unbinds you.

[Isabella Bergiere]

I was so gutted when the numbers you had so carefully managed and spent a LOT of time sorting OOCly were thrown off by people with their own agenda - causing the battle to be over in under 3 mins.

Am so pleased the leading sims are going to redo this battle as the RP leading up to it has been fantastic.

Huge thumbs up to all the participants from Turia, Jad, Nyuki and Treve who have worked together to salvage and continue this brilliant idea of Lina's.

[Grondar Quartz]

A huge thumbs up for Lina and all who helped her set this up its just a shame a few idiots spooiled it for the rest of us, look forward to naval battle part deux !!

[vido sciarri]

lot of hard work going on from lina for something fun and different, well done , oh and happy birthday grondar

[Syn Cybertar]

I would like to explain the whole situation, and why I think it is just bad show to replay this RP. Its not a flame, dont react as such but more my opinion.

Firstly, there was no OOC agenda of the black caste. We are loyal one thing and one thing alone and that is gold. Lina will agree that she never handed a black caste any coin, and therefore we were not hired. The black caste are not trustworthy. We informed lina to pay Cross, who is not an asassin, instead of us directly. Therefore tricking her IC into thinking that she had hired the black caste. (that is what I have been told by Xaz, if thats not the case then I am sure he will correct me in this thread).

Secondly, regarding the OOC informing of moderators. If we had informed lina of our plan then magically trevian warriors would have remained on the ships in  greater numbers, or we would not have even been hired. I think I see a good fix for this, have an impartial moderator. Someone not of Treve, nor any of the other sims involved who can do the number counting.

And thirdly, just from a personal ratio type thing. On the boats, there were 5 of us who "turned". Compared to the 6/7 men of Treve still on the boat. Including 2 assassins. Furthermore, when I gave the signal for us to attack I ensured that all of the Trevian warriors on the small boats were downed, which happened within 2 minutes. Please dont take this as a knock but what was thrown in my face yesterday was that I made sure the battle RP lasted 3 minutes. Sadly the battle was over long before we "turned".

Thats my two cents, I appreciate that you took a long time in planning this battle Lina and you did a good job. Sadly we are bastards. We are hated, we are Black Caste. We are loyal to coin, IC. It was not a OOC issue as people have spoken to me about.

Good luck in the re-run of the battle.

Gold and steel,
Syn.

Edit: Also, I spoke to more than a few people of the Turia/Jad side and they were very happy with how the RP went, exactly as -they- planned. Perhaps a suggestion is that Treve suck up its defeat and start thinking of an equally dastardly way to get back at them?

Edit 2: And please dont call us idiots, thats a uncalled for OOC attack. Hate me IC, thats what I want

[Isabella Bergiere]

It was a great pity that a small group chose to deceive Lina and the rest of us OOCly    (IC of course is not an issue but this particular RP was heavily planned OOC - it was not really the time or place for such OOC deception).

The fact that Xaz came to us OOCly to ask to be involved and Lina bent over backwards to think of a way to include you by having Treve hiring you IC - only to have it turn into a farce I admit does leave a sour taste. 
It was my coin that hired you IC and I assure you if I had not been asked OOCly to provide an RP means of helping you join in the fun I would not have bothered. 
I wondered at the time why 6 assassins from another sim were asking OOCly for roles on the Treve side - but I figured you were friends of Lina and that if we took you on board it would mean that 6 more Jad/Turia warriors would get spaces.
More fool us 


Lessons learned and I can't wait to have the rerun next week!


Syn, I am sure you and the others that made a mockery of the weeks of planning and careful attention to numbers to ensure an equal and worthwhile battle will find yourself some great RP with other players and I wish you nothing but the best of luck in finding it

Xaz made a post a few weeks ago asking why more people didn't hire his assassins -  I think he has his answer now 


To the people who RP'd for over 2 hours and waited patiently for things to start only to have it be over in a matter of minutes due to the unfair ratios I can only apologise and applaud the way in which is was maturely dealt with by both sides.

The fact the sim leaders are continuing to work together to salvage things really does leave me feeling that good things are going to happen out of this minor setback.

[Syn Cybertar]

"I wondered at the time why 6 assassins from another sim were asking OOCly for roles on the Treve side"
I was only informed of the RP by Xaz, after he had been hired by Jad/Turia. I did not ask to be involved OOC, infact Lina asked me to be involved a few times and I refused.

"Syn, I am sure you and the others that made a mockery of the weeks of planning and careful attention to numbers to ensure an equal and worthwhile battle will find yourself some great RP with other players and I wish you nothing but the best of luck in finding it"
To come back to that, I did not make a mockery of anything. I was given my coin, and I played my role correctly. But, I do find it amusing that Treve find it is fair for them to bitch and moan about numbers when in my experience, and several other people that I have spoken to, it is Treve who does not count properly. Indeed I was told you attacked Jad with a raid ratio of 5:1. But no, as always we are the bad guys.

"The fact the sim leaders are continuing to work together to salvage things really does leave me feeling that good things are going to happen out of this minor setback."
I think its a farce in truth, to appease Treve. They won that battle fair and square. If you do not like how the RP turned out fine, but redoing the who RP is silly and again, speaking to Jad/Turia warriors, they do not seem to even want to participate again.

In summary, I didnt make a mockery of anything. I played my role perfectly, as did the other assassins. I congratulate them for being able to RP in such an ingenious way. OOC and IC RP dont mix, keep it all IC and its good. Overly planning RP and throwing a hissy fit when your outsmarted = not good.

Gold and steel,
Syn. (The one who ruined the RP)

[Grondar Quartz]

I ensured that all of the Trevian warriors on the small boats were downed, which happened within 2 minutes. Please dont take this as a knock but what was thrown in my face yesterday was that I made sure the battle RP lasted 3 minutes. Sadly the battle was over long before we "turned".

Syn the reason all the warriors in the small boats were downed is that no one had actually told us the battle had started , we were still practising using the boats when we get a hail of arrows (nothing new there as the Jad/Turia warriors had been shooting practically all during the rp  and told repeatedly to stop) so we assumed they were still mucking about , I think if you were standing watching the attack and your 5 BC attacked from behind it is quite easy to put down your 6/7 warriors who weret expecting it, all that is IC , we are angry about the OOC aspect you yourself called out about Vido, who wasnt even there, we also got lots of OOC comments about Treve calling invalid at every opportunity, I heard these comments and formed the impression this was "payback" for past actions , OOC payback from comments made, As Bella states enjoy finding RP elsewhere because you certainly wont be finding it with us.

EDIT : you  and others of the BC have OOC arguements with Treve if it be  from Vido who wasnt even there or past actions I dont know ,  the whole set up of the rp was to have a good naval battle (didnt happen) and ongoing raids with other cities (might not now happen,). and it was spoiled by people who have to win at all costs , as I say enjoy your rp

[Isabella Bergiere]

I'm not going to go back and forth on this topic Syn - we obviously have extremely differing opinions over what constitutes good OOC sportsmanship and what does not.

You seem to have a great personal issue with the Treve sim, I wouldn't worry though as I doubt you will have much interaction in future.  If you don't like a sim - why play in a RP they planned 

The many warriors of Jad/Turia (or indeed of Treve) that you claim do not wish to participate again are of course are not being forced to do so but on the whole the council members of each sim are making the decisions and the agreement is to redo 


The goal of the day was to have a battle on the boats as it's something novel and fun -  I personally couldn't care less who 'wins' so long as people get more than a few mins of ridiculous ratios and then it's over lol x

[Victor Warilard]

I have seen the IM where OOC considerations were admitted to and that is what leaves a really sour taste in everyone's mouth.

Syn, you are well aware that there has been bad blood between Treve and your group. Here was a perfect opportunity to start mending fences. I won;lt call yopu an idiot, but I will say you were incredibly foolish and immature. Any chance of mending things now will be almost impossible for the foreseeable future and we can categorically say it is all your group's fault.

Xaz asked to particpiate and we agreed. We actually adopted a strategy to accommodate the assassins when it would have been better to have all the men on the boats. One of our strengths in combat has always been with melee and we have defeated groups twice our size in melee combat, so it was felt we would still have a chance on the large ship with your group plus a handful on our side. Maybe it would not have worked, but we will never know.

We did not invalidate the rp. Because the raid ratios were ignored, we said Port Jad and otehrs could have the treasure, but not any caps. There were plenty on thier side who were upset with what you did and it was agreed to redo the whole battle instead with people who want to be there and who will respect the efforts of those who put this together.

And no, we don't hate you. There are people in your group I respect, but we are extremely disappointed with your behavior.

[Syn Cybertar]

My personal opinions of Treve or its members had nothing to do with the planning of the RP. As I said, I was given coin and instruction by Xaz and I followed it to the letter. Sadly, he was not able to attend the event itself doubtless he would have been able to smooth it over better than I.

OOC had nothing to do with our decision to attack, and while I personally dislike Treve for several reasons I dont feel the need to relate them here. Xaz was the mastermind if you will. I dont know if he hates you or not. Youd have to ask him.

Also I find it childish you think we play to win. I dont play to win, I roleplay. If I lose I lose. In truth I expected your men to be better prepared. But I think it shows that the attitude towards BC in SL gor is not right. You trusted us. That was a mistake. A IC mistake. OOC I dont give a monkeys bright blue anus what your opinion of me is, truthfully. Im sure you think the same. But I will not have you saying that we ruined this RP. The RP was concluded, Jad/Turia won.

Coming back to Grondar, if you ask 90% of people in Gor which sims call invalid most, it would be Treve. I invite you to conduct such a survey, preferably not amoung your close friends. I myself have know of 4/5 RPs being canceled simply because... well there was no reason really.

But I understand what your getting at. I have added these rules for you to use at your discretion in the new RP.

1) When fighting war, ensure that the sides are even. This is because in the novels the sides were perfectly balanced, with full blown battles often being postponed due to one warrior being ill and unable to attend the battle.
2) When starting a naval battle with your oponents NEVER use the element of suprise by starting at the designated time. Instead, give plenty of warning to the opponent. Let them move into perfectly defendable positions and wait patiently until they fire first. Then you may begin to return fire, but not at too fast of a rate, we want this battle to last hours.
3) If your health should drop low, as it will because of the sheer number of bowmen, then simply remove it. This will enable you to become a superhuman and sustain many fatal wounds. This will also help us increase the length of the "RP" battle by several hours, perhaps days.
4) Should at any point Treve lose, the whole battle will be invalidated and scrapped, replanned several days later with anyone who was any good on the other side not being invited. (Note this does not effect number 1.)

Obviously that was sarcastic, but what dissapoints me is that in Treve you are near impossible to raid. Let alone get one over on, so why not suck it up? You lost. You were out-thought, and outplanned. Lina was the one who suggested to Turia/Jad that they hire spies on the big boats. So they did that, with a twist.  But I digress, back to the point of Treve being unraidable. Suck it up, you lost for ONCE. Go sit in your mountain castle, lick your wounds then go get them back. Go RAID them and get the treasure back. Im sure your capable.

Also, just a note would you stop sharing my IMs Isabella thank you. No disclaimer changes the T&Cs

As always, Gold and steel.
Syn

[Syn Cybertar]

Again just to make it crystal clear.

I, Syn Cybertar, did not plan the involvement of the black caste in the naval battle RP. I did not even know we were meant to turn on Treve until the day. So, any OOC views of mine that were said to Isabella are not really related. I dont like vido, I dont like Treve. I dont like how your moderators moderate. Thats simple. Im not hiding it. I dont wish to get into a flame battle over that, but simply put: IT WAS NOT THE REASON.

The reason was one thing: Gold.

And seriously, if we had told a moderator do you seriously, 100%, honestly, life-on-the-line, gun to your head, think that they wouldnt leak it out? HONESTLY?

Gold and steel,
Syn

[Isabella Bergiere]

Also, just a note would you stop sharing my IMs Isabella thank you. No disclaimer changes the T&Cs

I do apologise Syn but when it became apparent that your IM to me proved that this was an OOCly fuelled sabotage despite you claiming otherwise publically - I felt it necessary to share with my fellow council members as part of the moderation and decision process.   It will of course go no further.

Best wishes
Isabella

[Syn Cybertar]

Again, In black and white. I did not plan the black caste involvement. Please open your eyes and read.

With hugs and kisses,
Syn.

[Grondar Quartz]

I, Syn Cybertar, did not plan the involvement of the black caste in the naval battle RP. I did not even know we were meant to turn on Treve until the day

One last question then , I will ignore your sarchastic comments on the PLANNED battle and simply ask , who told  you that you were to turn on us ?

I shall now not respond to any other comments from you , but I do await any comments Xaz has for us.


edit , we heard you the first time , we believe you honest !