Female Fighters in Gor

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Randall Reich]

I came across this quote recently and had never seen it before:

In a letter received at WorldofGor.com back in October 2001 John Norman addressed the issue of 'female fighters' These words are quoted:

"There are no 'female warriors' on Gor. Gor is on the whole an honest, male-dominated realistic world. Indeed, this honesty is one of the things that commends it to romantic, heterosexual women. There are panther girls and talunas on Gor. They are unhappy, frustrated, disturbed women, half alienated from their sex. They tend to run in dangerous feline packs. Once captured and subdued it is said they make excellent slaves. 'Bring me into the collar if you can!' Amazon women/Mrs. Conan the Barbarian does not belong in the Gorean world. Let her pump her iron elsewhere. In the Gorean world, such a character would seem out of place, and silly."

I had no idea that Professor Lange had already commented on the Femlaws issue nearly 10 years ago, but I'm posting it here as fodder for discussion.  I'm using this quote next time someone tries to debate me on this topic.  Seems to me JN cut this one off at the knees. 

[Elle Couerblanc]

The existence of Tarna from Tribesmen is often used as a justification for female fighters in SLgor but she wasn't a warrior - she was a bandit.  It seems in many ways she was respected by those who followed her as well but of course Norman enslaves her in the end.  So in my eyes if one wants to keep within the "spirit" of the books the existence of female bandit types in SL may work.  But as warriors fightng among the red caste?  I would have to say no.

[Victor Warilard]

I have no problem with femlaws, female mercs, etc--as long as they stay in GE sims. There, it's not really Gor and they don't really care. I have an alt I play there once in a blue moon, but I never think if really as Gor, just a silly video game.

There is no place for them in BtB Gor

[Hawt Sommer]

There are panther girls and talunas on Gor. They are unhappy, frustrated, disturbed women, half alienated from their sex. They tend to run in dangerous feline packs. Once captured and subdued it is said they make excellent slaves.

Very rarely have I seen a panther play it this way.  Normally they are happy as a kitty with a belly full of fish with a lollipop hanging out their mouth and bolder than a biker in a pool hall.

I'm sure it's hard to play it real though. When they eventually get captured and raped, the statement above say's they would all give up,  but what would happen to their "Panther story" and the 8000 L$ they spent on panther gear, skin and barely there fur/leather kini.

[Anarch Allegiere]

And properly RPed Mambas like in the sim "OSTIA/Rive-de-Bois" (the old Sa'Ehnita crew) are around as well.

[Randall Reich]

If they wanna run around playing BBBB (Big Booty Battle Bitches) its cool by me.  Just don't call it Gor.  Or Gor evolved for that matter.  GB (Gor Bastardized) is more like it. 

I'd love to see a few groups playing the Panther/Taluna/Mamba/etc. role close to the books but I haven't seen it yet. 

[Poisonous Adored]

The existence of Tarna from Tribesmen is often used as a justification for female fighters in SLgor but she wasn't a warrior - she was a bandit.  It seems in many ways she was respected by those who followed her as well but of course Norman enslaves her in the end.  So in my eyes if one wants to keep within the "spirit" of the books the existence of female bandit types in SL may work.  But as warriors fightng among the red caste?  I would have to say no.

In Tribesmen of Gor, Tarna was just a tool used by the ubar of salt, Ibn Saran, for humiliating his enemies. She is not a very good gfighter (her dual with Tarl proves it) and I didnt recall her fighting in combat, just yelling orders to her men. Thoses don't respect her really, their loyalty goes to Ibn Saran. When Tarna fails to keep Tarl captive, it appears in this book that she becomes useless and Tarl notices, later, that her men dont care about her. When her kasbah is attacked, herself defeated for the second time by Tarl, she will beg to be enslaved, as she fears the awful death that will be her fate if she is taken by Ibn Saran's enemies.

Norman uses Tarna only to prove that women can't be the equals of a man in combat, that they are finally, powerless in front of true men. And he discribes Tarna as a tool serving a man, manipulated by this one.

And of course, there is nothing in the books about groups of outlaws, mixing male and female fighters. Tarna was an exception, placed in this situation by a man. Without Ibn Saran, it is probable that she would never had any possibility to take the commands of a group of men. Her men obeyed to Ibn Saran, in fact, because he was just a tool.

Honestly, if I wanted to play a female fighter in SL Gor, I wouldn't choose such model...

For me, GE is not something Gorean, I can't imagine a Gorean man accepting to be helped in combat by a woman, I can't imagine a Gorean warrior expecting to see the women of his city, helping him in the defense of the homestone. If I was a Gorean woman, I could only scorn such men, they would look weak, for me, they would be only cowards. In Gor, men protect their women, they don't expose their lifes. Women are feminine, they are vulnerable, they accept naturally and without shame, that they need men for their protection.

Only panther girls are in rebellion against these principles, they refuse their feminity, they despise men, but once captured and broken by a man, they submit.

[Isobel Mynx]

I had no idea that Professor Lange had already commented on the Femlaws issue nearly 10 years ago, but I'm posting it here as fodder for discussion.  I'm using this quote next time someone tries to debate me on this topic.  Seems to me JN cut this one off at the knees. 

The full extract from that letter is actually even more conclusive. 

"There are no "female warriors" on Gor. Gor is on the whole an honestly male-dominated realistic world. Indeed, this honesty is one of the things that commends it to romantic, heterosexual, hormonally normal women. Antimenite fantasies, man-hater fantasies, frustrate fantasies, and such, belong elsewhere. There are panther girls, and talunas, on Gor. These are not, however, women warriors. They are unhappy, frustrated, disturbed women half alienated from their sex. They tend to run in dangerous feline packs. Once captured and subdued it is said they make excellent slaves. "Bring me into the collar if you can!" "I am now yours, Master."

...... "Amazons" are for female frustrates, and perhaps male weaklings, or masochists. Ms. Conan does not belong in the Gorean world. Let her pump her iron elsewhere. In the Gorean world such a character would seem out of place, and silly. The Gorean movies, of course, in their shameless pandering to PC, had recourse to such unGorean absurdities. Macho maidens are rampant in contemporary fantasy, a concession in part to antimenite threats and demands, a concession in part to the politics of devirilization. Let them abound where they will in the fantasies of frustrates and opportunists, but they do not belong on a realistic world. ......  "

So, all you men that run after those Amazonian panthers are really masochists after all?   

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6821191/furry-gor

[Hawt Sommer]

So, all you men that run after those Amazonian panthers are really masochists after all?   

Actually,  They are and usually in pink boy silks in no time flat.

Amazing how the bdsm earth boys run to the fort with their swords drawn only to be in a collar and pink silks the next day sighing happily.

What is sad that a lot of camps welcome them with open arms.

[Isobel Mynx]

Ha!  Then perhaps GE should stand for Gor Emasculation? 

[Vesper Blaisdale]

I think most people are attracted to Gor because it's an excellent context for the men to feel more masculine and the women to feel more feminine.  It is this celebration of gender differences that provides most of the allure.  Why, then, would you want dilute this immersion with some sort of "evolved" mentality?  It's not really Gor any more, then, is it?  Just my two cents.  :-)

[Randall Reich]

Is it Gor anymore when hordes of axe wielding female Outlaws, War Wenches and fighting slaves come a calling?  To me, in a word, no.  If that's how they want to spend their SL time, that's fine, just don't say "this is also Gor" because it isn't.  The way gender is portrayed in the GE environment is diametrically opposed to the Gorean Universe.  Norman's Gor was all about defining gender roles as he thought they were truly meant to be--men were strong, fierce, and powerful, while women were strong, feminine and beautiful.  So-called Gor Evolved is really just an online video game with bits and pieces of Gor thrown in as a way for people to make friends, pewpew and cyber smex it up.

[Xaz Elephas]

On another gorforum... Panthers were posting how they had no sim to go rp in... so I invited them to Ka'zahr and told them we are Panther friendly.  Well so far the ONLY one thats shown up lasted 5 min before she was banned... landing, running around attacking everyone and when I imed her to explain the rules she calls me disney and so on.  Female fighters do NOT belong in my Gor. I won't put up with it.

[Spencer Darwinian]

I'm trying to remember which book it was that I read that panthers were constantly attacking the city...hmmmmmmmmm

Oh yea...I don't think I've read it in any of them.

[Randall Reich]

I'm sorry to say I just had a bad experience with one too.  I have a tent out in the wilderness.  She showed up on the sim my tent is on, attacked another Assassin, attacked a slave, attacked me, so I downed her and tossed her in a cage.  Told me a sob story about how she was just frightened and attacked out of fear.  I roleplayed with her for a long while before she logged.  She begged and begged me not to kill her. 

The next day she came back and once again she begged and begged me not to kill her.  I roleplayed with her again for a while, then took her away, naked, bound and blindfolded, and left her on the docks of a major Gorean City.  I thought it quite merciful on my part.  I could have just killed her but didn't.

Next day while I was offline she came back to the sim, left touch and die fire everywhere like she burnt the place down along with her tribe's banner, as though she was bragging about it, plus a notecard of the supposed RP which she titled "reveange (sp)".  While I can appreciate the attempt at creativity to me it was much more griefing than actual RP.  In fairness I did roleplay seeing my tent burnt to the ground along with all my furniture so, after much grumbling and clearing of rubble, I put up a different tent.  But really is that the kind of RP I want to have with a random stranger who comes in to play shoot em up, gets capped, then comes back to wreak havoc while I'm offline?    More of an attention whorish nuisance than anything.