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Author Topic: Slaves Greeting the Free  (Read 3140 times)
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Bara Mayako
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« 22. August 2011, 10:38:22 »
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I brought the Luther Scrolls into the discussion only because I noticed, in reading this thread, that the posters were using different quotes from the books to defend conflicting viewpoints, in the same way that people often use different quotes from the bible to defend conflicting viewpoints.The Luther scrolls are, at least, an attempt at an exegesis of Norman's (and Lange's) works for the purpose of creating a unified, unambiguous set of rules for an online roleplaying environment.  I disagree that he does not cite the books in the scrolls, he does so extensively, albeit perhaps not enough, because I do agree that in many cases he extrapolates and draws conclusions that I find tenuous at best.   And for me, as a non-native speaker, I find them easier to read and understand than the books.  They are just simply written in an academic style, with a relatively simple vocabulary and straightforward sentences, and avoid the overblown bombast of Norman's voice in the novels.

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With all due respect - for anyone with even the most basic knowledge of academic writing, wording something to appear as though it is well informed is neither difficult nor praise-worthy. The Luther scrolls are what they are - one man's subjective interpretation of Norman's novels. At least with note-cards of quotes, the quotes are being displayed unbiased, as they were presented in the books. Even if out of context. Which is surely better than one person's interpretation of a collection of quotes.

Nothing beats book-reading for Gorean knowledge (regardless the author's shortcomings) - but out of context quotes beat subjectively slanted fluff any day of the week.
What exactly in my post do you disagree with?  And please do not misquote me. Nowhere did I state that I considered the Luther scrolls well-informed (can an essay be well-informed, or is it the writer?). I didn't even call them "well-written", I simply stated that for me, as someone for whom English is not my mother tongue, they were relatively easy to understand (even his discussion of the Nietzchean roots of Gorean philosophy was easier for me to follow than some passages in Norman's fiction -- which btw does suggest that I have at least attempted to read the books).  I will give you that Luther's opinion is no more valid than any other opinion given in this thread, but I fail to see why, prima facie, a statement or opinion by Luther should be less valid than any other opinion given in this thread, merely because it is Luther who said it.  Perhaps there is a thread in one of the Gorean forums that sufficiently demonstrates why Luther has been discredited and his writings should be purged and not considered at all, but I haven't found it yet.  I am, however, of enough of an open mind, that I would be pleased to see a critique of what he has done wrong.  One can only learn from it.
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Caranda Schreiner
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« 22. August 2011, 16:11:38 »
In my view what he had done wrong is to not clearly distinguish in his essays between material that is actually book-based and those claims which are simply his opinion.  It's made worse because he does not cite quotes and treats his own opinion as if it were equivalent to material he has taken directly from the books.

His essays are often entertaining to read but you need to be very careful reading them because they are laced with inaccurate material and unless you are very familiar with the books you will not be able to spot the assertions he makes that are opinion rather than accurate statement drawn directly from the books.  That is why many people caution not to take them at face value.

In my opinion its better to read quote collections if you want to learn more about a particular Gorean topic.


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Kaitlin Eiren
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« 22. August 2011, 16:36:30 »
For anyone who finds the books difficult to read I have no qualms at all sending them to the following:

http://thegoreancave.com/

It will provide you a full listing of quotes on a variety of topics.  Caranda as always said it amazingly well what the issue is with the Luther Scrolls.
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Role-players vs Lifestylers: There is no safety in declaring which camp you are in; there are morons and valuable people in either group. ~Dren

Good RP = Brain Sex ~Gorm

Kait: http://ladykait.wordpress.com/
Imperial Ar: http://imperialar.info/blog/
T&S: http://teslikandsiproot.wordpress.com/
Loredana Varonia
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« 22. August 2011, 19:28:21 »
I absolutely agree... the goreancave-site is great! i often use it
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Tanti
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« 23. August 2011, 01:15:57 »
I will give you that Luther's opinion is no more valid than any other opinion given in this thread, but I fail to see why, prima facie, a statement or opinion by Luther should be less valid than any other opinion given in this thread, merely because it is Luther who said it.

A statement or opinion by Luther is no more or less valid than a stated opinion by anyone else who has read the same material and come to a different conclusion. The problem with using them as your basis for Gorean knowledge is that they area secondary, subjectively slanted source that don't even quote the primary source in order to back up the opinion put forward. So what you're effectively reading then, is an opinion.

There's nothing wrong with reading an opinion about something... but when you're doing that, it's important to recognize it as opinion and to inform yourself as objectively as possible from the primary source. Well. To me it is, anyway.

Gorean Cave is your friend; the books and common sense more so.
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