Pros and Cons of your caste/role

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Suyuan Quan]

So I am in Tyros atm and I have been considering declaring a caste though I am entirely uncertain.  Assassin is out the window because it is for men and black makes me look fat and Warrior is for men but I prefer using the hilt of the sword for -- I mean, onto the inquiry!

I was considering merchant because I could get to travel around frequently, find more RP and possibly foster relations between the Pani and the rest of mainland Gor.  Only downsides are are that merchants are ubiquitous and are more exposed to danger depending on where they go and might need escorts and big entourages with some.

There is also the caste of entertainers as some pros include traveling, playing my instrument, lack of a chance of being enslaved, and I haven't seen very many people play them.  The only cons are are that I would only be able to survive on possibly meager funds if I resort solely to playing music/singing/reciting poetry and stories for a living and my character sees a female Entertainer, well rather herself as a form of a contract woman and she is only the daughter of one but still has exceptional skills.

So what should I go with? Any other caste advice and what are the pros and cons of your castes and/or roles?

[Azh'Lann Veeper]

I'd go for "Daring Entertainer", if Tarl can wear black cloak with red tunic, then why not a 'bias' entertainer. I don't know how the books will 'pro or cons' against that idea though.
Pani is already under watchful eyes even without any deviation.

Personally I'm always a big fan of Pani, either because I  support the minority or mainly because my nature is closer to Eastern culture.
Will try to help anyway I can, in the mean time let me look at the list of the caste again...P
*dive into the sea of scrolls*

[Sayrax wiefel]

Can I be the hilt of the sword??


Could always be a herb woman, if you like travling around some.

[Drevan Darkbyrd]

Can I be the hilt of the sword??


Could always be a herb woman, if you like travling around some.

I would like to know more about these sword hilts and your intentions with them please be as speciffic as possible

[Poisonous Adored]

IC, a caste is not something you pick up following your mood..... And impersonating a caste is a serious offense

If you are a pani, be a pani, no need to declare a caste. You would be a Tuchuk, a Torvalslander, it would be the same principle.

[Anarch Allegiere]

Pani, Tuchuk, Torvaldslander, Wagon People ... in the eyes of the law of the "Southern cities" you're all technically outlaws. But that's not as bad as people try to portray it to be. Gorean society was harsh and nobody but lawsmen (guards (which usually were NOT Red Castes), or magistrates) would care about a few dangerous unknown men walking around their neighbourhood. In fact, such was common place.

Gorean society consisted of majorly poor low castes, which in themselves already were a dangerous crowd to deal with. Adding in a few outlaws, panis, torvaldslanders wasn't gonna make anyone look up. Obviously the entire notion of being able to know the entire population of your city is also pretty false, and something I even in Treve used sometimes to let 'outside' people wander. I'd be damned if there'd be a city-guard out there which would know all the few thousands that lived in his city. Technically every gorean city had a % of outlaws living inside their own city, in the slums, the poorer districts, the docks. Pirates generally too lived on the docks of one or the other Vosk city.

I do however belief that to have any legal rights and status in a Southern city that you are required to be a member of a Caste, or at the very least, are working for a business that is serving your Home-Stone. (Mercenary companies for example usually also had a Home-Stone the 'company' pledged to and had it's main base of operations from, even if among such mercenary companies you'd be able to find many outlaws and men without caste...)

[Suyuan Quan]

IC, a caste is not something you pick up following your mood..... And impersonating a caste is a serious offense

If you are a pani, be a pani, no need to declare a caste. You would be a Tuchuk, a Torvalslander, it would be the same principle.

IC, no but OOC I can pick it according to my mood and how I RP and I have impersonated rather disguised myself such and such for purposes to explore through cities without getting collared or bothered so I can go about and do my thing.  It's no different than from a Panther impersonating a Free Woman for survival.

Pani is a race, not a caste.  I am of Pani ethnicity, but if you walk into a city where they have no castes or roles, you must adapt.  You can still maintain who you are even though you are working a certain profession that doesn't exist in your culture.

[Anarch Allegiere]

Pani is a race, not a caste.  I am of Pani ethnicity, but if you walk into a city where they have no castes or roles, you must adapt.  You can still maintain who you are even though you are working a certain profession that doesn't exist in your culture.

Yes, but in my opinion you'd be watering down your culture a bit, or perhaps some more fundamentalistic "Pani's" might interpret it as betraying your culture, when you take on an element (Castes) that is considered a culture-element of the Ancient Greco-Roman "Southern Gorean" culture.
¨
"Pani-land" and "Torvaldsland" etc. don't recognize Castes obviously in their society. So if a Pani would be very indulged in their own culture, then they'd most likely just stick to their culture and not bother with outside elements. That's at least how I would interpret it.

Obviously you will have, and there are examples of, people from such cultures completely having taken on the culture of the region they're staying in, thus having been mostly culturally assimilated. Like for example that city-guard (a low caste law enforcer) in Ar who was described as looking asian, iirc?

[Tariq Xue]

Do not forget also that while you are pani and pretty much everything anarch said is true about how you might not want to take caste etc for cultural reasons you yourself have decided to leave pani land and whether it be Tyros or anywhere else you decide to make your home will have to live within that cultural norm and laws.  An American moving to Iran for example would not be able to expect free speech and the same life and culture they have in the states.  They would have to adapt to the culture they have moved too in order to live within it,  at least on the surface.  You could of course also stay hidden in the underbelly as anarch describes which has legitimate realism too it but might make it difficult to become part of a city if you wish to actually become part of it simply because there are not 10s of thousands there but in any given city anywhere between 30-400 within the group claiming to make their home there and a dramatic percentage less then that that will be active while you are. 

If I was playing a pani that had moved to southern "proper" Gor I might figure out a caste that worked for me but still RP characteristics of my culture.  You could perhaps even make the assimilation part of your RP,  make mistakes (be careful there,  contract women type RP by most city laws might earn you a collar heh) and so forth. 

Who knows,  in a year or so pani land in SL Gor might be as big as torvi sims and you can RP going home to your people to share with them what you learned from the strange cultures beyond the horizon. 

[Anarch Allegiere]

Pani is a race, not a caste.  I am of Pani ethnicity, but if you walk into a city where they have no castes or roles, you must adapt.  You can still maintain who you are even though you are working a certain profession that doesn't exist in your culture.

I'd also like to point out that Caste =/= profession. Caste is more of an identity-element that is very hard to become a part of (if you're not born into it) and even more so, due to social pressure probably, hard to get out of. If you join a Caste it's generally considered that you remain in it for life. However your job is something completely different.

You can be a Red Caste and then will have either one of the following jobs:
- City-guard (although this would be rare as it's usually considered a Low Caste job, since there is in many cities a "Caste of Guardsmen".)

The following jobs don't bother with law enforcement in their city normally:
- Infantry
- Tharlarion Cavalry
- Tarnsmen
- Mercenary
- Private guard
- etc.

Furthermore it's completely possible, but often not in line with the "ethos" of a business, to let people of a Caste do work that's generally not related to their Caste. For example a Red Caste 'lawyer', could be possible, but only if there is disregard for Caste-values from whichever company that would be trying to offer these services.

In SL Gor however the world is not as depicted as the "free market" that Gor really was in the books, and things tend to take on a much more socialistic or even communistic approach. In SL Gor every Red Caste instantly is deemed a law-enforcer and army-soldier in one, and every Scribe is instantly deemed to be working for the city libraries and legislation. Which in itself, obviously, are onlineisms...

[Azh'Lann Veeper]

IC, a caste is not something you pick up following your mood..... And impersonating a caste is a serious offense

If you are a pani, be a pani, no need to declare a caste. You would be a Tuchuk, a Torvalslander, it would be the same principle.

I could've swear I hear her hissed.... rofl....

as everyone said it here, it's only a fucking game...

[Poisonous Adored]

Suyuan, I do not confuse caste and ethnic groups, thank you. And a panther cant impersonating a free woman, because a panther is a free woman. Outlaw, sure, but considered free woman.

Im not pissed at all, Azh'Lann, I point only the fact that Goreans are very caste protective and rather proud of their caste. It's not something you pick up following your mood, yes. You join a caste by birth, or you have to be accepted into (and to prove that you are worthy of).

So, if Suyuan picks up a caste, she can be simply accused of impersonating a caste. When obviously, you do not look like the native typical southern woman, due to your physical appareance, maybe it's not a good idea. And you can have an activity, a profession, without join/impersonating a caste if you belong to a non system caste ethnic group. After, of course, you may ask your admission into a caste, once you pledged to your new homestone if you have the skills for. It's the legal way.

[Byron Greenwood]

If it were me, if I wanted to play a Pani, I'd want to play one as faithfully as possible and not compromise. Since we have no Pani-focused sims, as yet, I'd have to be a wanderer (sorta as seen in Kung Fu) so I could interact in a Gorean environment, albeit not my Pani homeland. So, I'd not be bothering about the caste system in southern continental Gor. I'd also probably let the RP dictate where and what I'd be. That's to say, rather than proclaim myself an outlaw or whatever, I'd target the sim I'd like to RP in, see how the folks there end up treating me, and if that's not acceptable (say, because they won't accept Pani RP) I'd move to the next sim on my list, until I've run out of decent sims to try for. Research the Pani fully, play one as fully as possible, don't compromise your concept, and see what happens.

[Suyuan Quan]

Suyuan, I do not confuse caste and ethnic groups, thank you. And a panther cant impersonating a free woman, because a panther is a free woman. Outlaw, sure, but considered free woman.

Im not pissed at all, Azh'Lann, I point only the fact that Goreans are very caste protective and rather proud of their caste. It's not something you pick up following your mood, yes. You join a caste by birth, or you have to be accepted into (and to prove that you are worthy of).

So, if Suyuan picks up a caste, she can be simply accused of impersonating a caste. When obviously, you do not look like the native typical southern woman, due to your physical appareance, maybe it's not a good idea. And you can have an activity, a profession, without join/impersonating a caste if you belong to a non system caste ethnic group. After, of course, you may ask your admission into a caste, once you pledged to your new homestone if you have the skills for. It's the legal way.

Would you like a token Pani with your argument?

So whatever caste I decide to pledge to, I'm automatically impersonating because it resorts back to the fact that I am and look Pani and do not resemble a typical Gorean?

Yes, we can go the legal route and everyone knows Gorean attitudes towards people from different cultures.  But, you have profound examples in the books where there were people of color in different roles throughout Gor and not all them were resided, worked, or pledged caste to the very place where they born and pledged to the homestone to.  They can be Schendian, Torvaldslander, Pani, Red Hunter, Red Savage, Taharic etc.

The point is, this is SL Gor and I believe you are forgetting how diverse it is from the books.  Sure, we have BtB sims, but there will be most likely Schendians or Torvaldslanders there.  Perhaps one or two Wagon People and if you are lucky, a Pani.  We are not always going to be exactly by the books.  For example, the current Port Kar sports a small culture but that is because there was a tarncamp near there in the books.  You will also meet people of various races throughout SL Gorean cities and regardless of the region we have to be flexible.

You almost won't hear about a Torvie deciding to join the Red Caste in a city or a Schendian taking up the Entertainter Caste being accused of impersonation because of their looks in RP.  I know that Gor in general is xenophobic, but to generate RP, an open mind on race is encouraged.

[Conall DeCuir]

If it were me, if I wanted to play a Pani, I'd want to play one as faithfully as possible and not compromise. Since we have no Pani-focused sims, as yet, I'd have to be a wanderer (sorta as seen in Kung Fu) so I could interact in a Gorean environment, albeit not my Pani homeland. So, I'd not be bothering about the caste system in southern continental Gor. I'd also probably let the RP dictate where and what I'd be. That's to say, rather than proclaim myself an outlaw or whatever, I'd target the sim I'd like to RP in, see how the folks there end up treating me, and if that's not acceptable (say, because they won't accept Pani RP) I'd move to the next sim on my list, until I've run out of decent sims to try for. Research the Pani fully, play one as fully as possible, don't compromise your concept, and see what happens.

YES !
and that applies of course for every player and ever role.