Slave Schools BTB?

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May 2012

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[Husam Darkfire]

I would never ever in a million go ooc to a school to be taught by some, how to be a torvie, how to be a warrior...or any other male role. But to be tained as a warrior IC, ofcourse, if it was part of my role.

I can see the advantage of some of these as an entry level course to get someone a basic understanding of Gor, the people, and the various roles and cultures. It might even reduce the number of goreans wearing baggy gansta pants and knit caps. But I must confess, I've only read the first 11 books and not the entire series yet. So the introduction of a gorean hip-hop scene might reside in one of the later books. So for now I continue to snicker and press on.

But as for slave training, I think there is only so much you can do since we exist in a virtual environment. I think some schools may already offer it but I believe the classes need to be tailored to the experience level of the students allowing them to enter at any level or simply acquire any focused training that they or the owner feels would be a benefit. Being a fully immersive IC school would definitely be a nice touch.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I would never ever in a million go ooc to a school to be taught by some, how to be a torvie, how to be a warrior...or any other male role. But to be tained as a warrior IC, ofcourse, if it was part of my role.

I can see the advantage of some of these as an entry level course to get someone a basic understanding of Gor, the people, and the various roles and cultures. It might even reduce the number of goreans wearing baggy gansta pants and knit caps. But I must confess, I've only read the first 11 books and not the entire series yet. So the introduction of a gorean hip-hop scene might reside in one of the later books. So for now I continue to snicker and press on.

But as for slave training, I think there is only so much you can do since we exist in a virtual environment. I think some schools may already offer it but I believe the classes need to be tailored to the experience level of the students allowing them to enter at any level or simply acquire any focused training that they or the owner feels would be a benefit. Being a fully immersive IC school would definitely be a nice touch.

While I would hate for this to turn back to GU at my own hand, I will confirm there are varying levels that attempt to provide exactly the focused training you mention.  You would be amazed how many slaves in SL Gor have never even given a proper gorean bath or any number of other skills that most slaves should master.

Off Topic
Crimson Spear filled a similar niche for beginning warriors and over time other castes that is sadly missed even if these were certainly OOC classes.  I know many warriors and others who benefited from these classes.  Not everything can be taught in RP particularly when there are SL limitations/instructions to give.

[Poisonous Adored]

A BTB place is a place where you act by the books and you cant act by the books if you are not rping.

Second, never a FW will train a pleasure slave in giving pleasure, never a FW will teach the lust to a slave, wil teach dances. FW can be business women and own a brothel (and Ludmillia, aka Talena, didnt run her brothels personaly), a slave house, but reguarding the training of pleasure slaves, they have limits making sense.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

A BTB place is a place where you act by the books and you cant act by the books if you are not rping.

Second, never a FW will train a pleasure slave in giving pleasure, never a FW will teach the lust to a slave, wil teach dances. FW can be business women and own a brothel (and Ludmillia, aka Talena, didnt run her brothels personaly), a slave house, but reguarding the training of pleasure slaves, they have limits making sense.

So tell me where are you drawing those limits from?  If a female slaver could oversee a male slave in very graphic detail why would they not perform other?  Are saying they can teach only from one perspective on sex?  That is not plausible.  Also who says the classes are not in RP?  Why do you think I keep pointing out to you that your perception is not reality and it is based on something other than knowledge of the classes themselves.   

Here is an example of *facepalms* RP.

[19:11] Slave #1 slips quietly into the Tavern, the soft soles of her feet padding lightly across the tiles until her tiny toes meet the lushness of the carpet next to the girl from her class. Silvered grey-blue eyes look to her and she smiles "greetings Slave #2, come to look at the supplies along with me this eve?" her gaze scans about the room, torchlight licking along the walls and exquisite furnishings.

[19:12] Slave #2 smiles as she happily enters the tavern loving the smell of the aged wood and lingering perfumes always feeling quite at home as she strolls across the dance pit unable to resist before entering the kitchen her mind on her task once more smiling as she sees the lovely kajira already waiting and whispers softly greetings Slave #1.

[19:19] Slave #2 lifts her eyes to her Master a familiar warmth slides across her skin even as she turns and smiles to Slave #1 whispering, "you take the casks and this girl will see what is left after a long nights service of the other beverages."

[19:21] Slave #1's eyes cast warmly over to her Master, the jump of her pulse lending a soft pink blush to her cheeks. Her breath caught, her step towards the kitchen almost faltering as she passed him. A sigh, a soft rush of breath from her lips before she looked towards the shelves and floor to the now empty barrels laying haphazardly around. "yes Slave #2," she laughs "but what a shame there's not even a drop of paga left in here!" she whispers, giving the small cask a little shake.

[19:33] Slave #2 moves to the counter seeing the remains of the preparations for juice that needs to be cast out, her thoughts going once more to her Master as she spies the larma, the rich fruit that always causes her to think of her intimate offerings to her Master. A familiar reaction increases the warmth already felt as she feels his gaze on her as if he is reading her thoughts. Shaking free of her trance and inaction she leans to the low shelf full yet breasts hanging to check the stock of beans for black wine their strong scent swirling around her as the breeze licks the view of her silky round bottom she is offering to her Master, slender toned legs slightly split for a glimpse of more before she raises to her full height holding the tin for the beans seeing it's low state.

[19:34] Slave #1 reaches long willowy arms out to wrap around the empty casks, the bend of her knees lifting the gentle curves of her body upwards. Satiny flesh gleamed, caressed and warmed by the flickering lights of the torches as she tipped and struggled under the weight of the bulky items. The little point of her chin propped to the topmost cask as she caught Slave #2 staring at her owner and tried valiantly to grin, "oh you little slutling" she laughed and winked, but then the heat of her own eyes caught her Master and all coherent thoughts left her mind as she walked blindly towards what she hoped was the tavern entrance.

[19:59] Slave #1's toes tap their way gently at the tiles under her feet, each step taken down the stairs as if she were blind. Surely she was, as the empty casks filled her arms, her chin still propped to hold the upper cask. The light strike of her collar against the wood made her wince with each sorely won step down. Gently she sighed, on feeling the cool green tickling grass under the soles of her dainty feet. The breath left her with a whoosh, as her arms tipped and let the empty casks fall into the rubbish heap in a thudding crash! "Done," she murmurs, turning to see her classmate not far behind, "and looks like just in time to meet the Brew Master."

[19:59] Slave #2 laughs softly seeing the lovely kajira struggle with her load and wonders to herself how she will manage to bring in the full casks from Brew Master's wagon. She hurries thru her task of adding larma, topsit, cherries and other fruits for the next day's fresh juice after she refills the tin with fragrant beans to the tip top before sliding it back under the low shelving once again offering him a swift peek at all that is his, her body's tension evidence she is still quite aware of her Masters presence. Lifting her emerald eyes to him unable to resist she then turns to follow Slave #1 to see if she needs assistance, an extra bit added to the sway of her lush hips as she glides across the tavern floor and disappears down the stairs leaving in her wake the light scent of jasmine ensuring she passes close to her Master as he regards her quietly his eyes promising action for her teasing.

[20:16] Slave #1's eyes cast over her shoulder, the lushness of her curves soon following as she moved in a languid supple gait towards the Brew Master's wagon. "greetings, Master" the inviting lilt of her voice called to the imposing stance of the man within the open aired contraption, "may this girl carry the Tavern's order for you?" The boom of his command gave speed to her feet as she moved to harta in the collection of the full load. Each cask he placed within the outstretch of her arms weighed her down some, until she nearly squeaked under the load. "yes - Master, girl wishes you well!" The syllables stretched out, with the captured labor of her breath.

[20:25] Slave #1 turns on the balls of her feet, trying to walk with a sauntering presence up the stairs. Perhaps the effort was in vain, but try she would as the load of full and now dangerously sloshing beverages found her weaving left and right to keep them balanced and safe within the purchase of her arms. Again, her toes tapped at the stairs and took them one at a time. Trembling she reached the top, and peeked over the uppermost cask to see where the straightest path lay that wouldn't see her trip. She reached Slave #2 and in a labored breath whispered, "Slave #22222222," she gasped and then squeaked "help?"

[20:26] Slave #2 reaches the stairs finding Slave #1 struggling as she expected under the weight of the heavy load her slender arms barely surrounding the casks as she teeters up the stairs. Before she can offer assistance she sees the load begin to tilt and laughing yells "timber" before hurrying to assist her and return everything to the kitchen as they both share in a laugh before they are stilled by the stern looks from their Masters.

[20:26] Slave #2 smiles her shining eyes scanning the kitchen once more to ensure it is ready for another day of fine service with drinks flowing and turns to Slave #1 who is still panting gently from her effort the soft sheen of moisture coating her skin only enhancing her beauty as she whispers to her all done until tomorrow. Even as the words flow from her ruby lips she lifts her sooty lashes to meet her Masters heated glaze acknowledging that she is all done and now all his.

There is an added benefit to the class as well.  Both girls got dinged for slipping into 3rd person while not being commanded to do so.    So there is plenty of RP during the classes but that also gets followed up with feedback on those interactions. 

[Poisonous Adored]

Kaitlin, it makes sense that never a FW will teach to a slave, that she ignores herself, that she is herself not encouraged to develop and express.

FW are free because they do not act like slaves, because they are - considered - cold and frigid. This frigidity, real or not, is a part of their dignity, it's differenciate her from slaves. Even if a FW is able to be a slut in her private quarters, never in public she will show that she is not rather ignorant about sexuality, lust and pleasure. A FW will take pleasure with her kajirus, in the secret of her private quarters and she wont claim that around her. Appareances must to be safe.
If you want to make a dancer, so, you find for her a true dancer, not a FW. A free woman will never teach slaves about duties reguarding man's pleasure. And this part of slave training is, the BIG part of her training. Slaves are trained in priority for learning to please to men. A FW is not exactly the good teacher for....

I dont see exactly the purpose, with this RP you copied pasted.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

Kaitlin, it makes sense that never a FW will teach to a slave, that she ignores herself, that she is herself not encouraged to develop and express.

FW are free because they do not act like slaves, because they are - considered - cold and frigid. This frigidity, real or not, is a part of their dignity, it's differenciate her from slaves. Even if a FW is able to be a slut in her private quarters, never in public she will show that she is not rather ignorant about sexuality, lust and pleasure. A FW will take pleasure with her kajirus, in the secret of her private quarters and she wont claim that around her. Appareances must to be safe.
If you want to make a dancer, so, you find for her a true dancer, not a FW. A free woman will never teach slaves about duties reguarding man's pleasure. And this part of slave training is, the BIG part of her training. Slaves are trained in priority for learning to please to men. A FW is not exactly the good teacher for....

I dont see exactly the purpose, with this RP you copied pasted.

As far as the purpose of the I copied and pasted, it was in response to your own inaccurate assertion.

A BTB place is a place where you act by the books and you cant act by the books if you are not rping.

As far as a FW being fit to train a slave it is important to remember most FW were trained in the event they ever became slaves and in the case you keep going back to as if there is only one instructor, it is a former slave.  There is a world of training for a new slave beyond just how to lie down and be used in the furs that a FW could easily teach if they happened to be a slaver and certainly I expect they would do exactly what male slavers have been known to do, have female slave girls as teachers.

[Poisonous Adored]

Kaitlin, it makes sense that never a FW will teach to a slave, that she ignores herself, that she is herself not encouraged to develop and express.

FW are free because they do not act like slaves, because they are - considered - cold and frigid. This frigidity, real or not, is a part of their dignity, it's differenciate her from slaves. Even if a FW is able to be a slut in her private quarters, never in public she will show that she is not rather ignorant about sexuality, lust and pleasure. A FW will take pleasure with her kajirus, in the secret of her private quarters and she wont claim that around her. Appareances must to be safe.
If you want to make a dancer, so, you find for her a true dancer, not a FW. A free woman will never teach slaves about duties reguarding man's pleasure. And this part of slave training is, the BIG part of her training. Slaves are trained in priority for learning to please to men. A FW is not exactly the good teacher for....

I dont see exactly the purpose, with this RP you copied pasted.

As far as the purpose of the I copied and pasted, it was in response to your own inaccurate assertion.

A BTB place is a place where you act by the books and you cant act by the books if you are not rping.

As far as a FW being fit to train a slave it is important to remember most FW were trained in the event they ever became slaves and in the case you keep going back to as if there is only one instructor, it is a former slave.  There is a world of training for a new slave beyond just how to lie down and be used in the furs that a FW could easily teach if they happened to be a slaver and certainly I expect they would do exactly what male slavers have been known to do, have female slave girls as teachers.

Kaitlin, there is a huge difference between a woman who has been initiated to some slave duties, and an experienced passion slave, which will train other girls.
If I need to make a pleasure slave of an untrained one, I take a Sura (Assassin of Gor), not a FW.

Assassin is probably one of the books which describe the best, a pleasure kajira training. And indeed, it's clearly not a job for a FW.
And when I speak about please men, I do not mean only the part in furs. Far from it. Kajirae learn to be sensual, to inspire the lust, they learn how to express their feminine nature. It's clearly impossible for a FW to teach that, she would dishonor herself. All this huge part of training is given by an experienced pleasure slave.

[Tanti]

It's rather simple to work out whether training is IC or OOC, for me.

Where is the feedback given? OOC? Then it's OOC. IC? Then it's IC.

Had the above example shown the slaves being reprimanded IC for speaking in third person or guided IC - IC training.

Watching or reading a role play scene and then giving a critique on an OOC level about the IC actions or RP technique is not IC training, to me.

Saying that, I can see this IC/OOC mix training working for some people, so not knocking it. Personally I prefer my characters' development to happen in character.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

Assassin is probably one of the books which describe the best, a pleasure kajira training. And indeed, it's clearly not a job for a FW.
And when I speak about please men, I do not mean only the part in furs. Far from it. Kajirae learn to be sensual, to inspire the lust, they learn how to express their feminine nature. It's clearly impossible for a FW to teach that, she would dishonor herself. All this huge part of training is given by an experienced pleasure slave.

I have to ask.  Why continue to ignore the fact the classes are taught by slaves?  Just to prove your point?  Also this idea you have about what a FW will and won't do is fine in a general sense but with the right backstory it might be entirely feasible.  Now what I will add is that of course they do run the risk of being enslaved but blanket statements that can be easily disproved don't work.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

It's rather simple to work out whether training is IC or OOC, for me.

Where is the feedback given? OOC? Then it's OOC. IC? Then it's IC.

Had the above example shown the slaves being reprimanded IC for speaking in third person or guided IC - IC training.

Watching or reading a role play scene and then giving a critique on an OOC level about the IC actions or RP technique is not IC training, to me.

Saying that, I can see this IC/OOC mix training working for some people, so not knocking it. Personally I prefer my characters' development to happen in character.

I think it really is just this simple to define.  Some classes can naturally be IC but there are examples of classes where this would not work as well such as technical "Slave Dance" since much of what is taught goes beyond emoting various dance but includes the mechanics to make this work in an SL environment with animations, poses and replica's of musical instruments. 

[Poisonous Adored]

Assassin is probably one of the books which describe the best, a pleasure kajira training. And indeed, it's clearly not a job for a FW.
And when I speak about please men, I do not mean only the part in furs. Far from it. Kajirae learn to be sensual, to inspire the lust, they learn how to express their feminine nature. It's clearly impossible for a FW to teach that, she would dishonor herself. All this huge part of training is given by an experienced pleasure slave.

I have to ask.  Why continue to ignore the fact the classes are taught by slaves?  Just to prove your point?  Also this idea you have about what a FW will and won't do is fine in a general sense but with the right backstory it might be entirely feasible.  Now what I will add is that of course they do run the risk of being enslaved but blanket statements that can be easily disproved don't work.

Where I ignored even once, that training was given first, by slaves??

Ok, I recopy my precedent post, pay attention, please:

Kaitlin, there is a huge difference between a woman who has been initiated to some slave duties, and an experienced passion slave, which will train other girls.
If I need to make a pleasure slave of an untrained one, I take a Sura (Assassin of Gor), not a FW.

Assassin is probably one of the books which describe the best, a pleasure kajira training. And indeed, it's clearly not a job for a FW.
And when I speak about please men, I do not mean only the part in furs. Far from it. Kajirae learn to be sensual, to inspire the lust, they learn how to express their feminine nature. It's clearly impossible for a FW to teach that, she would dishonor herself. All this huge part of training is given by an experienced pleasure slave.

Ok?

My point was to say that a FW cannot teach pleasure slaves, as the huge part of the training of these kajirae is based on the expression of their sensuality, they womanhood, and how to please to men. I made it enough clear, in my precedent post, that this training was the job of a slave trainer, a pleasure or passion experienced one, and absloutely not a FW.

And you RP when you create stories, when you immerse yourself in a story, not when you make RP exercices. I can tell you that I have assisted, when I ran the Golden Sirik, slave house, in Kailani, closed sim now, to a dance training, given 100 % IC. All girls played a role, some of them played slaves in training, but were rpers perfectly experienced and knowing since years how RP a kajira. The OOC technical aspects were given by notecard, via group notices....

[Loredana Varonia]

well, anyway, if one should not know of the quote at the beginning of this thread, i am quite sure this would be seen as an onlinism! what are kajira schools for? it makes few sense to me as it would only mean paying for what a slave would learn in any way ...

On the other hand: if any kajira school on sl gor would really be btb, it would be ok for me. but most probably we all know that most of the kajira schools are the largest origin for onlinisms. some are better, some are worse but upto now none of my "twin sisters" has ever seen a really non-onlinism, btb kajira school.

[Natalis Verino]

Were I to give an opinion on what I have read thus far in this thread it would be multifaceted as there seem to be several questions being asked here.

The first of which I will address is whether or not a school should be IC or OOC. I think that all depends on what kind of experience the person questioning is looking for. If you are looking for an immersive experience where you can "live" the life of a slave or even "live" the life of those involved with slavery then chances are IC is the way to go for you. If you are looking for more of a lifestyler approach wherein classes are conducted based off notecards and outside the bounds of any sort of story then OOC is probably for you.

If it were me doing the choosing I would have to go for IC because I have no desire to sit around and go through classes that have no bearing on what it is I want to accomplish with my character other than to stuff my head full of knowledge, that sounds too much like my college years to me. For me to learn that knowledge IC or even to teach it would be the better alternative because it would be part and parcel of the story that I was writing with the other people around me rather than some side project I was doing.

Would the teachers be women and slaves or men? I think it would be a mixture. There is evidence in the books of all three being involved in the training of slaves. Mostly we see men or slave girls doing the training but in Fighting Slave we can also see a woman involved in the training of Jason. I believe the only thing that makes me bristle about a free woman being involved in the training of a slave is when  the question of pleasure training is raised and that I think, at least to me, is an area where a free woman would not go. I'm frigid and chaste until I go to work and spend my time showing the boys we own how to properly weave the arts of pleasure that should get me thrown into a collar for taking part in so openly but it's ok because I'm at work. Honestly it sounds like a sort of I want to have my cake and eat it too argument being used to get around the limitations of the role.

[Revenge Sempati]

Off Topic
Crimson Spear filled a similar niche for beginning warriors and over time other castes that is sadly missed even if these were certainly OOC classes.  I know many warriors and others who benefited from these classes.  Not everything can be taught in RP particularly when there are SL limitations/instructions to give.

Sorry have to address this, personal issue to me.  Almost everything that a Warrior needs to know can, and is better taught/learned, through RP training, codes, tactics, ethos, etc.  The only thing that needs to venture outside IC training is the setup of viewer settings.

Frankly the same goes for slaves school IMO.  The bulk of training should and can be done IC through role play, provide other resources for reference (all those silly NCs) for those that want to have something more but they are not necessary to be trained as a slave.  Then again my approaches tend to trend against the common accepted ways, but then again that is why not been a slaver for over 4 years.
There is no BtB training school because the environment of SL Gor does not make it possible to be as fully immersive as we would like.  It is both a blessing and curse that way.

[Loredana Varonia]

both of my two chars did well without any kajira school. the simply have practices the only thing that - imo - is really gorean: learning by doing!

and if need be, one can read the books in rl and so no necessity for kajira schools. would any new rp (and old) on gor throw away all the nc he/she gets for every role, even for slaves, sl gor would be much more btb!

is there anything better than reading the books and then roleplaying? unfortunately most do not do it this way...