Cross Gender Characters

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Kaile Oconnell]

Hmmm.... I'm sure this will be an interesting discussion.... 

I was wandering through a few different sims tonight, trying to find my way back to my homestone (I had died and had amnesia you see) and I was asking people if they knew me or could help me find home. I was dressed in a plain red tunic, with sandles, a short sword sword and that's about all.

So, perhaps foolishly, I wandered into what is, shall we say, a sim full of youngbloods. Now, I'd actually played in this sim for over a month before and although it had recently had a facelift, I knew more or less what to expect. I was not disappointed. I was, however, somewhat freaked out by a conversation I had with a female outlaw in IMs.

We'd been getting on fine - joking about gothic clothes in the desert after she pointed out that my pretty much standard Gorean clothing was going to make me a target for capture in this particular sim.  I mentioned that I'd played here before as another character - a female one - and I knew what it was like.  I said it had been difficult to really maintain a female character in Gor because the RP was all a little intense and some people took their relationships very seriously. Hence I'd felt I had to give up on it. She then began lamenting how Second Life had turned Gor into a joke. I said that I thought this particular sim was probably at the heart of that Joke and she didn't take it very well. Which I thought strange given our previous conversation. In fact she then turned on me and more or less accused me of being everything that was bad with SL GOR because I used to RP a female character. This left me quite stunned, to say the least.

Here I was getting a dressing down for roleplaying a character of the opposite sex from a female outlaw dressed in a long black leather dress in the middle of the desert in a sim where the only good RP is Capture RP.

The irony of the situation did not escape me. But the vehemence of her reaction was quite surprising. I'd touched a very, very raw nerve with her and couldn't get anything resembling a rational conversation out of her before she (presumably) muted me. [In my own homestone sim, we take all kinds of flack for a variety of reasons but we tend to be pretty thick skinned. If someone criticizes our land, we'll take umbridge alright but I'm sure we're likely to want to argue it out with them, rather than go off and sulk.]

So, what I want to know is - is RPing someone of the opposite gender the worst sin in SL Gor?  

Is it even a sin at all?

(ducks and runs for cover...) 

[Kilthoran Lundquist]

I played a female character myself and gave it up.
 
The first reason was exactly the same you pointed out earlier. Relationships in Second Life are intense and people might get a crush on you or something like that. You revealing your real sex could lead to scenes you should try to avoid.

The second reason was, that I after some time felt a bit foul playing a female character. It just suits me better to play my own sex in SL.

The third reason was, that the possibility was given I could get used (playing a Kajira) by a male. And describing how my gentle fingers touch some muscular warriors hairy breast was not exactly a turn on, considering I am hetero with no bi ambitions as far as I know.


Drawing back to your question I shall say: No, it is no sin as long as you play a fair game. As long no one asks you, you do not have to reveal your real sex. But when someone asks you directly you should be open. That limits the time you can play a female character of course...
Making up not just a character but also a person behind the computer: "Oh yes, I am 31, one children, a husband that is a bit jealous so I can not voice since he is in the room etc" in contrary really is a sin because it dimishs trust not just in you, but in the game as a whole.

 

[Kaile Oconnell]

Yep. I'm right with you there for most of the same reasons. 

As a table-top roleplayer of some 20 years (the usual suspects: AD&D, Fantasy Hero, Rolemaster, GURPS etc) I'm used to roleplaying with a tight-nit bunch of friends that I know and trust. We're all comfortable enough with ourselves to play characters of the opposite gender about 50% of the time. The GM or DM who manages these games has to convincingly bring life to five or six NPC characters of both sexes in each session and we see nothing wrong with that either.

So, when I joined SL and eventually migrated to Gor, I thought there'd be no difference playing a female character there. This was at a time when I'd only read one Gor book 25 years ago and I was only RPing in Gor because there was no other decent, fully fleshed out fantasy setting on SL.   

But that was five months ago and I've since read another 10 Gor novels and my opinion has mostly changed. I keep my other alt alive for some occasional RP but she doesn't get out much. And if someone asks me what sex I am when I'm playing her, I'll tell them and suck up the consequences. 

As to those who fabricate fake 1st Lives to compliment their SL profiles? Very sad indeed. 

[Keira Wilder]

I don't care if someone is a gender swapper. As long as the RP is good, fine.

[Nadja Avalanche]

I agree to it. If played good, i dont care what sex the other in RL has.

Master Kilthoran, you wrote:
Oh yes, I am 31, one children, a husband that is a bit jealous so I can not voice since he is in the room etc

Well, can you imagine that a boyfriend would be really upset ( when in good mood ) and really angry ( when in bad mood ) if his girl friend has voice sex with another one on Gor ? As kajira it can happen very quick you know.

Or without Sex, with calling someone by voice Master or Mistress ?

I spoke by voice with exactly two german persons on Gor till now, and it wasnt RP at all. And with some kajiare in Midgaard. Only some chat. Minimum one is registered here. But is that necessary to prove your sex ?

viola told me about a Sim where panthers are accepted only if they prove by voice that they are female. Good or Bad ?

[Santana Graves]

 

[Guru Randwick]

Due to my opinion there are mainly two reasons which speak for matter:

• Gor is a counter-world dominated by men. In SL-Gor there are far to many female characters played. There are far to many Kajiare, Panthers participating, compared to the situations, stories characterized in Norman's Novels. (... Not to speak about female warriors, whose right of existance is most argumentative in gorean scenery.)
• It might be a personal challenge for someone to play another sex in RP than he has in SL. Academically, as long as one sees RP as a way live out some things which can't be lived in RL, why not? If RP means to cast oneself, then anyone should be allowed to play any role in SL; - as long as it is a gorean character in SL-Gor, aswell.

On the other hand, there is mainly one rational argument against it

• As Nadja already pointed out: If RP is done with voice, then it might be a problem for many participants to deal with it. Ok, if you are good friends in RL or maybe even in SL, then it could work. But SL is a stage for everyone who wants to join. (As a matter of fact, I personally am against RPing with voice, for many reasons.)

   
So finally it is a matter of how one wants to assess the arguments to me. I personally think, that it would be quite affirmative towards a "realistic" Gor, in order to achieve a realistic division between the gorean sexes assigned to the gorean roles in RP.

* Guru Randwick impishly laughs: Who knows, maybe some out of those (many) Panthers and/female warriors who do not accept the situation when they are  conquered or even captured would be much more comfortable in a male role, where they can dominate. Finally this could lead to less "invalid-clamors", who knows ... 

[Nadja Avalanche]

Agree to the point never to RP with voice, Master.

Voice is for me an easy tool to clear OOC Stuff, or talk about the weather, and so on. ( good that i dont need to clear many things OOC..smiles. But i do know some, who need that )

I would never RP in it. *imagining her boy friend behing her when she speaks with her Mistress..giggles

And i think too, that too many panther/female outlaws are men. And kajirae also. But who cares if they play it realistic ? I dont.

As far as i know and experienced til now, mainly men has problems with others gender changing. I think its kinda homophobic ( right in english ?).

Its surely easier for someone like me, who doesnt need to decide between men or woman 

The point i disagree is the less invalid claiming when they would play their real sex. Why should that be better ?

The most are arguing cause they cant loose (and because they dont understand, that a lost fight can lead to exciting and real good RP , and both would be winners ) , that wont change, no matter what sex they are playing.

[Santana Graves]

RP=Role Play, seems for many really hard to understand that Roleplaying also can include Gender-Changes...

And yeah Nadja, mostly men do have problems with it, but that comes partially out of the fact that still many men do search an RL-Sex-Partner in SL...

It is the same old problem it was forever.... RL is not SL and vice versa....

Calling an RP as invalid is in 95% of the cases the fact not to be able to lose... but that's another Discussion-Point, and that point is ways to big to be in this thread...

To come back to the topic, in every damn RP-Environment it is the same as fast as some Voice is integrated, or at least used (Teamspeak/Ventrilio/whatever). The men's that are on a search for an RL-Girl do bring up the old discussion about, every girl has to prove her Sex in the Voice-Chat.... As long as the community is not able to divide between RL and RP (SL/WoW/HG:L/EQ2/Age/Age2/ etc) as long the discussion will stay...

Oh, yeah, the list in the Brackets is a list of all RP-Games/Environments I do play regularly, in most of them I play Female-Chars.... And, nope I am not a Woman.... 
But it is nice to see how long you can play a Female-Char without the quesion coming up what your gender is, smile, mostly much longer than many would expect....

*winks to all that had still not realized it...

[Zelmo Boucher]

It bothers men - and me - when sexuality could possibly be involved. Of course it is homophobia combined with no interest or ability to try this out. Kilthoran named it.

Gender becomes interesting and important if you intend to play closer with somebody - if you are searching for a RL partner or not, because you get RL-scenarios in mind when playing around in SL, of course more or less, depending on the situations and yourself. I know some men who play women (and some who I expect to be men) and it doesnt bother me at all as long as they are just friends and good players - and I treat and see their characters as what they appear to me inworld. Maybe it wouldnt bother me in sexual fire-and-forget intercourses. Dont know - and I definiteley dont know the gender of each person I've met so far in the furs although I'm pretty sure about most of them. Anyway: It was fun so far ;-)

[Nadja Avalanche]

Hehe. Yes, isnt that the most important thing ? That it was fun ? Does it matter really, what the real sex is ?

I really dont understand the problem with it, it might be because i dont prefer one gender.

Let me ask one question. If you had really exciting sexual roleplay and you notice later, that it was a men pretending to be a woman. Would it have been bad then ? Would your experience change ? The fun you had ?

As San said, i experience that request often, to speak by voice, phone whatever, in SL and in other chats.

I think the problem is really, that the men have in mind to meet a girl in RL. And they dont want to waste time on their way.

But to deny voice is an easy thing to avoid those men..giggles. And to concentrate on what is really important, roleplay.

And San, i knew it :-p

[Santana Graves]

*smiles to Nadja

Just a lil general, out of my experiences do have german men's much more a problem with Gender-Changed RP than men's of other countries have...

That might say something about them, maybe it does not, who knows... smile... fact is, I got never IM's/PN's whatever from non-germans like I got from germans to that fact....

Funny is, many say things like... "Yeah I know that you are not a woman" or "I had the feeling you could be a man" or whatever... The absolut only person that ever asked me in SL direct was Kaya.....

 

[Nadja Avalanche]

That i can explain. It isnt of interest to me. Therefore i dont ask anyone about his real gender. Why should i ?

When you look like a woman, and you play like a woman, you are a woman to me in SL. Easy as that.

And to the other point, that germans dislike it more. I dont agree to that, in my opinion and after my experiences i made in SL americans are the ones who pay most attention to it.

[Zelmo Boucher]

If it really interested me I would ask directly. But it was never neccessary so far.

And Nad: It wouldnt change anything on the fun afterwards, leave some strange feeling and wouldnt change anything in my opinion and my interests ;-) But nice try, hehe.

As I said: It matters if relations become closer because I would dislike knowing my sexual partner would be a man - I simply wouldnt do it. And closer relationships have something to do with trust. And sure: The fun counts. But in closer relations something else counts, too. Some guy lately told me he also plays a woman I know although I dindt ask him anything - he said: Hey, I simply dont want to play games with you. And sure: Many men have meeting a girl in RL in mind. Mostly just the vague thing that it could possibility happen. Its in the genes.

[Santana Graves]

smiles

That was more to people that are interested in it, cuz of not being able to differ between RL and SL, not to people that are able to do it 

Yeah, experiences are different, sounds normal for me, like I said, in my experience, and also in the experience of an RL-Friend of mine (he plays also female-chars) the germans do have more problems with it... but these are not just SL-Experiences, more general from different RP-Environments....

@Zelmo

As I said: It matters if relations become closer because I would dislike knowing my sexual partner would be a man - I simply wouldnt do it. And closer relationships have something to do with trust.

RL or SL?