Gay/Les Gor Play

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Sayrax wiefel]

So question to folks, as  a reflective community question.

In the past we had Whitewater, now adays we have Tabor,Two Scimmys.

I am curious on how folks view the state of roleplay in gor, that we have a gay gor centrism rp block,and how it effects ones personal beliefs on allowing such. Would you consider yourself open enough to allow it, or not"btb" to allow such folks to roleplay.


The floor is now yours

[FInn Snowfall]

I can accept gay RP between panthers .... I dunno why but it is simply like that . And I accept in a threesome with one man and two slaves that the slaves kiss and all that .

But gay men ? I dunno ..... it simply seems to be unsuited to the vision of gor I had from reading quotes and parts of the books ... maybe I am wrong

[Anarch Allegiere]

Lesbian stuff was in the books... so women shouldn't have that as RP limit imo.

[FInn Snowfall]

Lol good point Anarch !

Now to quote your views about slaves ....

What was it again ?

"You can stick your thing in em and have em do your dishes  " I think that was it right ?

[Tanti]

There were homosexual people of both genders in the books. They were looked upon as an 'oddity', but not outcast or insulted. That's the way I'd play it, given that that's the way the books state it.

I believe that people play in specific 'gay' sims because they don't want to be viewed this way - they want to play out the power dynamic that is present between slaves and free people in Gor - including the sexual elements - without having to have their characters viewed as oddities. Which is fine, in my opinion.

So, 'should' they be allowed to role play those relationships within mainstream sims - absolutely. As long as they can accept that the most book-plausible response would be to find it a little strange.

Of course, it goes both ways. I have seen blatant homophobia in a lot of places. If that is stopping homosexual people, or people who are playing homosexual characters, from playing in mainstream sims, then it should be addressed, as should any prejudice born of ignorance. I'd hope nobody would stand by and say nothing while a stupid person spews vitriol, anyway.

[Elle Couerblanc]

Lesbian stuff was in the books... so women shouldn't have that as RP limit imo.

* Elle Couerblanc rolls her eyes at Anarch "Men!"

I have only read that there was a small minority of people (slave race I believe) who engaged in gay sex amongst the red savages but not so much in standard Gorean society.  I skipped those books though but plan on going back at some point to read the couple about the red savages.  I am at Vagabonds now but what I understand there is a gay relationship between a man and his slave in Magicians which is the next book I plan on reading.  I haven't read anything that I see as lesbianism between slave girls or even true "three ways". What I have read is one girl watches while the Master takes another girl.

In terms of people's own personal RP? I really could care less to be honest - it wouldn't effect my rp with them one bit. But until I see in a book that a slave girl is ordered to engage in sexual acts with another slave girl than I am not doing it myself since I don't see that as BTB.

[JF Kanto]

The majority of Goreans would view homosexuality as a bit odd.  The books are very much set toward heterosexuals as the norm.  I don't see anything wrong with gays playing in BtB sims, but they should be prepared to be viewed ICly as a bit odd or eccentric in their tastes.  though they should never suffer any ooc issues because of their choice....

[Misha Hellershanks]

here we go again,  I am not going to debate it as we are here to stay.  In Kalana Fjord Village, now part of the Tor'Mark Fell, we offer good role play for all of those who are openminded enough to visit. If one is offened in seeing a cute red headed Thrall/kajiurs doing a lap serve in our longhall, then this is not the place for you.  I dont care if one if you think it is btb or not,  it is our role play.   I do see many hiding their homophobia in thier rp and thumping the books.   The people of the Tor'Mark have been very welcoming and openmind to invited us to their world and i want to thank them for having us.   (Ironhall/Tor'Mark haters dont need to respond here)

[Reven]

Not sure if it helps.. stumbled on this..

Waniyanpi invented their ethos to dignify and ennoble their own weakness. It may be mentioned, that interestingly, since that there is, in the compounds, an unusual incidence of homosexuality, both of male and female varieties. This is perhaps a natural enough development considering the conditioned obstacles placed in the way of more usual relationships. It also fits in better with the values of Sameness. To be sure, officially the Waniyanpi disparage all sex, despite the relative countenance tacitly afforded by their ethos to the homosexual relationship. Where natural sexuality is prohibited there is little perversions. The prescribed choice for the Waniyanpi, of course, is loftily abstinence, pretending no problems exist. The reason that Waniyanpi breeding takes place in a maize field, incidentally, seems to be that, in the medicine beliefs of the red savages, the example of their breeding is supposed to encourage the maize to flourish.
"What are the other reasons?" I asked.
"There are two," said Pumpkin, regarding the hooded women. "The first is that we thus hide their faces from the red savages, and thus reduce the probability of their being taken away from us."
"Their clothing," I said, "to a large extent, hides their figures."
"Yes," said Pumpkin, embarrassed.
"Frankly," I said, "I do not think they are in much danger. The red savages have their pick of many women, lovely, vital woman, many of them nude and collared, and trained, like she-kaiila, to service their pleasures. I do not think they would be likely to be much interested in Waniyanpi females." Such females, I adjudged, from seeing Radish, and the men, would be unpleasant and rigid, or, more likely, dismal, miserable slave market, even to give such women. It was interesting to speculate whether under a proper regimen of whipping, bonds and training something might be done with them. "What is the second reason?" I asked.
"We do not want them to see red-savage males," he said.
"Why?" I asked.
"It makes it harder for them, sometimes, then," he said, "to be content, again, in the compounds. It makes it more difficult for them, sometimes, to continue to accept and practice the teaching, for them to adhere to the truths of Sameness."
Blood Brothers,page 157

[pasy namiboo]

Alright, well, I will respond to the OP by saying that if we allow for people to say they wont participate in homosexuality as a limit in SL Gor, then we should allow for people who want to participate in it. Homosexuality is in the books, even if it is not the main theme, or what would be considered the usual norm. That being said, and given the fact that Goreans did not seem to suffer from homophobia, even if it wasn't the norm, then we should act Gorean, and not be homphobes. Gets down off her soap box and puts in her soundtrack from "Glee".

[Meredith Topaz]

Alright, well, I will respond to the OP by saying that if we allow for people to say they wont participate in homosexuality as a limit in SL Gor, then we should allow for people who want to participate in it. Homosexuality is in the books, even if it is not the main theme, or what would be considered the usual norm. That being said, and given the fact that Goreans did not seem to suffer from homophobia, even if it wasn't the norm, then we should act Gorean, and not be homphobes. Gets down off her soap box and puts in her soundtrack from "Glee".

* Meredith Topaz shares the earphones with Pasy.  "Glee!!"   

[Rayzor McAuley]

There was a rather lengthy discussion about this over on Goreanforums.net ( http://www.goreanforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5464 ) and it ran nearly 20 pages.  Personally, I think that homosexuality was rare on Gor and should be RPed as such.  Full settlements comprised almost entirely of homosexuals on Gor just isn't feasible.  Gor, just like Earth, is predominately heterosexual (if not more so) and we don't see entire populations of homosexuals on Earth either.  What little we know of homosexuality on Gor suggests that it was a rare and private matter, and certainly not something you'd see in the common areas of taverns and longhouses.

Now, that being said, if someone wants to cater to homosexuals in SL and have entirely gay/lesbian/bi sims, then so be it.  Whoever pays the bills calls the shots.  Just don't try to pass it off as BtB.

[Sayrax wiefel]

here we go again,  I am not going to debate it as we are here to stay.  In Kalana Fjord Village, now part of the Tor'Mark Fell, we offer good role play for all of those who are openminded enough to visit. If one is offened in seeing a cute red headed Thrall/kajiurs doing a lap serve in our longhall, then this is not the place for you.  I dont care if one if you think it is btb or not,  it is our role play.   I do see many hiding their homophobia in thier rp and thumping the books.   The people of the Tor'Mark have been very welcoming and openmind to invited us to their world and i want to thank them for having us.   (Ironhall/Tor'Mark haters dont need to respond here)
[/quote

Hmm, I wouldn't say here we go again, I saw the conversation on the goreanforums, and thought it should be talked about here. A good conversational should not just happen in one spot.  I personally miss, when Talon was incharge of the raider sim, and think Ironhall is lesser for it.

Now for homophobia,some folks are like that r/l, and has folks commonly argue about r/l feminsim ad equality and all that. Do not bring your religious views into rp, their is no jesus in gor, and the priest kings don't care if folks are gay.   That is my added comment for now.

[Eternity Starsmith]

Of course, it goes both ways. I have seen blatant homophobia in a lot of places. If that is stopping homosexual people, or people who are playing homosexual characters, from playing in mainstream sims, then it should be addressed, as should any prejudice born of ignorance. I'd hope nobody would stand by and say nothing while a stupid person spews vitriol, anyway.

Prejudice is an integral part of Gor. It's so pervasive that Gor wouldn't even be Gor without it. Homosexuality, in large part, doesn't belong IC in BTB Gor. I don't know why it's an issue, to be honest. It's like saying Gor is sexist and everyone should be culturally sensitive to a feminist agenda. Anyone that plays in BTB Gor must accept its inherent prejudice as part of the game.

[Claude Belgar]

I have no problem with two men beeing together. It would means after all, two women available.
Two women together, sadly, they are lost