Slaves

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Reven]

Over time on these boards many questions come and go. This one has probably been asked many times before also. But here we go a new thread.

Sl gor has changed so much. Starting off the wild untrained barbarians laced with onlineism taught statues. To the "spirited" who are really more princesses than anything else. Then back to the still statues. The bonds the believe that their way is right. Come to that matter alot think what they are doing is right.

Ive always looked at Slaves on how I expect them to behave. Where I see other places encouraging slaves to be statues. I was even on a sim where a bond was shunned from RP as she was not southern.

What style of slave play works? How many slaves play their character to a story and not just enjoy the M/s side of things.

Ive seen some of the best slaves in my opinion lost struggle to get role play where the drama queen thought emoting horrible slut that looks like a doll gets all the focus. This is by no means jealousy of any sort. It just makes me wonder.. I mean really.. is that what guys want to see?

Ive always had Slaves be trained or encourage them to have their own stories their own minds. Stray away from the stereotype. Be unique them self.

Ive also been under the impression like others for a long time that free need to understand better Slaves and Slave play. Get rid of the gorisms and slisms and stop pushing the truly good ones out the way.

I guess this is a semi rant But I am truly interested in seeing what the public wants to see in Slaves. What traits are ideal to you? What makes a slave stick out. Cause surely the roleplayers here want more than a slave who can call someone a fucking bitch in a thought emote then act all child and babylike. Instead of the grown sensual women they should be.

[Linnet Foggarty]

It is an interesting question, what does the “public” want from slave players.  I see the same thing you do, trends that come and go, good players leaving the genre or the role because they can’t get RP or are tired of the frustrations.

It’s a hard one to answer because everyone wants and expects something different, and therein lies the dilemma.  People want different things from slave players, and there is nothing wrong with that, but some can’t understand that there will be different kinds of slave players to suit those different interests.  Neither side is wrong, it just isn’t a match and that’s fine.  We can still RP together surely.

In the years I’ve been doing this I’ve had quite a few IM’s complimenting me on my characters and my roleplay, as well as many offers to buy me.  I’ve also had really insulting thought emotes, been completely ignored in RP for days or weeks on end, and was treated quite rudely in group chats and in IMs.

There comes a point it wears on you.  I know what my character is, who she is, and though I try to adapt to the RP style of those around me it’s hard to change my actual character to suit what those around me want.  Master A wants a hot blooded slut who loves to dance and finger herself, Master B wants a loyal obedient girl who sits by his boot and serves from the heart.  Mistress A wants a demure shy tower slave to comb her hair and cook her food, Mistress B wants a cunning slave that will spy for her.

I can’t be all of those things, I just can’t, but it took me a long time to learn that.  I’m there to roleplay the type of character that interests me and when I’m enjoying myself  hopefully I’ll find or attract those who enjoy my character and my style of play.  When I try to change to suit the current trend or to meet the expectations of those around me I end up really stressed out and hating my character, even hating Gor.

What’s so hard about these conversations is that we don’t tend to see them for other other blanket roles.  What does the public expect from Free Men?  What does the public expect from Free Women?  We’d find topics like that crazy, we’d need more specifics about the character before we could answer a generic question like that.  What caste are they?  What culture are they?  What is their family status, income, background, education, etc.  But with slaves?  With slaves we just lump them under one category not taking into account that there is a huge variety in the types of slave roles not to mention their personalities and backgrounds.

My heart goes out to any new slave players who are constantly given advice on how to do it “right”.  Advice on everything from doing a perfect serve to be pleasing to spilling a drink for entertainment, from being giggly and sweet, to being raunchy and hot.  We tell people how to do it right, and then turn around and say we don’t want robo-kajira or cookie cutters.  It’s quite bizarre really.

As for me?  I don't play a slave, I refuse.  I play a woman. 
Yes, she's enslaved, but that isn't WHO she is.  Somehow there is a difference in my mind.
The most important man in my SL once told me he wanted a "whole woman" and I worked hard to give him that.  Even with him gone, I won't give up being a whole woman.  I just have to look a little harder for those that enjoy playing with me.

[Elle Couerblanc]

I have to admit I push the limits of being a slave and couple in times in Clearchus it got me some slack.  Axiom/Elle is not a mute slave - she is very free woman in her mannerisms and can be dowright confrontational with other slaves.  I have been called oocly a bitch and been subject to negative thought emotes stating that I should not play a slave (largely by slave players).  Obviously, Axiom is not loved by slaves LOL, but to the free she is big old brown noser.  She's not stupid, they have the power, not her fellow embonded women. She schmoozes the free whenever she can.  Right now she is actually in disguise a a FW jotting down the names of former clearchus residents in her "dress shop ledger" to report back to her owner who is in hiding (OOCly we havent really settled yet in a sim so I am playing this way to find some fun RP). She has now found her an escort who is going take traveling to other sims to find out where the Clearchusans have all gone to.  

For me I primarily play to a story but I have admit I do like to dabble in the M/s of things at times.  Do I miss out on RP for going this route? Probably cause some free haven't a clue what to do with Axiom and she may scare other slaves with her in your face ways.  (Do I screw her? Do I make her fetch me a drink? Do I punish her? Do I throw rocks at her?)  I have moments where the flack I get with my slave play bordering on free woman/GE Slave bothers me (largely from slave players) but for the most part I am having too much fun to care.  

I don't know who really is at fault in the dilemma of how to define a good slave player. Is it the free who are lost about how to rp with us or judge us oocly for our choice to play a slave? Or is the over abundance of slave players who I see that think slave equates spoiled child in a hot outfit?

I have to say I am very much on the same page with Linnet when she says "As for me?  I don't play a slave, I refuse.  I play a woman. 
Yes, she's enslaved, but that isn't WHO she is.  Somehow there is a difference in my mind."

[Kaitlin Eiren]

For me it is simple.  I want to see a "full" character rather than a slave who is just a trait of a slave (dancer, pleasure, coin slut, exotic, ect).  Their knowledge of the genre and glimpses of "who they are" should be evident in their interactions and I really like if when they do not need to be led by the hand in the scene.  Creativity and initiative are something that every character who RPs in gor should bring to the table rather than being a drain on others.  Give something back.   Last but not least please do not assume that the only way to have "personality" is to be a misbehaved slave that would have been sleen food in every book the author wrote.  

As far as the criticism being deserved I still see far more awful slaves than good slaves and I am guilty of seeking out those I know will offer good RP when I see them.

@Elle
Sometimes the best RP can come from pushing the boundary as long as you know you are playing along a boundary rather than blatantly crossing it.  Where I see an epic fail is when the character is not even aware of that boundary. 

[Linnet Foggarty]

Ive seen some of the best slaves in my opinion lost struggle to get role play where the drama queen thought emoting horrible slut that looks like a doll gets all the focus. This is by no means jealousy of any sort. It just makes me wonder.. I mean really.. is that what guys want to see?

Oh I want to touch on this part!

The fact is, a lot of men in SL Gor are easily manipulated into these scenarios.  Sorry guys, you know I love you, but it's often true.  I can't even tell you the amount of times I've seen great guys, amazing roleplayers, drop everything to "deal" with a problem slave or invincible captive.  After three hours they'll IM me, pleased as punch "Ha!  I showed her, I whipped her and stripped her and made her crawl.  She won't be doing THAT again".

Depending how close I am to the guy, I might burst his bubble and tell him the truth "Dude, you just got punked".

The truth is in our envinronment the commodity and currency is RP.  Every time someone gives RP time to a character it's a reward.  It really is, men please learn to consider your time and attention in that way.  Too often, WAY too often, that reward is given in such a way to reinforce negative behaviour and just plain old bad roleplay.  It's sad really how men get backed into this corner, if they ignore what's going on they get told they aren't "real men" or some other insults, but if they drop everything and spend hours with that type of player to correct her, she gets exactly what she wanted in the first place.  She won.

Meanwhile, it's setting an example to new players of how to get attention, and all the great players with cool story ideas are left watching the show.

[Tertionus]

Depending how close I am to the guy, I might burst his bubble and tell him the truth "Dude, you just got punked".

True that. My character doesn't tend to suffer "naughty" slaves. He considers it the business of slavers, and sends them away.

[Reven]

Theres women players I know who I would name amazing role players. We done this in another thread and im not gonna add you again here. Yous know who you are.

Ive played various different types of slaves over the time in Sl gor. And Im rarely one that plays on her back doing nothing but erotic RP. Or doing it for kicks. I do enjoy the story.

Ive been on the recieving end of being called a fucking cunt. (her words not mine) in a thought emote because I wouldnt disclose information to a Slave i didnt know from adam. Now I tend to just walk off and leave them types behind when I am a faced with someone like that.

I dunno. I thought id ask and see what people think. Because I keep seeing. my opinion again. The wrong type of slave getting all the attention when thet good ones. The ones that have so much to offer to make your time worth while. To keep you up till 5am having fun in that epic role play your looking for. And not the drama filled headaches that you experience are sat hanging there waiting.

My slave players were always unique. Always had a quirk to them. I mean some of you will remember burden. And some will know Sapphie.

I also look at some slaves negatively too much. I see some as takers in RP rarely givers. Always expecting us to find them us to RP them us to tell them what to do. I mean where is the individual in that

And way too often are guys manipulated. I can and have done it myself. Ive played that princess line. Cause I can. I had soo much fun being a princess slave till we killed her off. Cause well. It was proving too hard that the Scarlets couldnt fight cause this Diva like slave demanded 12 guards to just escort her to the potty..

@ Elle I hated you when I was burden. You were a bitch indeed!! Haha. but damn. I love you to bits now.

@ Linnette. Yes I agree completely. Slaves are women who are enslaved. Not what i see as a trend. Children needing guided who are hookers in teh same part? I cant quite figure out how cute and kid like and horny fur bunny fits together but well. You see it often.

And "Naughty" Slaves god. please just ban them from everywhere.

I put them in the "spirited" folder. People tend to call girls who act like this spirited and think its cute. *Shudders* But Ive never depended on anyone in my RP . So prehaps thats why Ive never went to that angle.

I feel so bad when I see new players emoting. Which I had seen even in my own pens. A New to gor person saying well Im a sub. Im a woman and I dont be a bitch but everyone ignores me. That brat over there is beaten all the time and getting Rp for being a bitch IC and a dramaqueen OOC so im gonna do it too

[Elle Couerblanc]

@Elle
Sometimes the best RP can come from pushing the boundary as long as you know you are playing along a boundary rather than blatantly crossing it.  Where I see an epic fail is when the character is not even aware of that boundary. 

Oh I am aware and know that I could be killed for impersonating a free woman but I do keep my collar on (concealed).  The danger of this rp is part of the fun.

[Elle Couerblanc]

I also look at some slaves negatively too much. I see some as takers in RP rarely givers. Always expecting us to find them us to RP them us to tell them what to do. I mean where is the individual in that

* Elle Couerblanc raises her hand and says "Guilty".  I do this too more often than I would like to admit.  I should be elevating my fellow slave players rather than talking negatively. But, damn it, I just get annoyed with this child acting trend I am seeing with slaves.  I guess I need to work on this attitude myself.

@ Elle I hated you when I was burden. You were a bitch indeed!! Haha. but damn. I love you to bits now.

She's the ultimate mean girl LOL. I think I play Elle this way cause oocly I tend to be a big softy.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

@Elle
Sometimes the best RP can come from pushing the boundary as long as you know you are playing along a boundary rather than blatantly crossing it.  Where I see an epic fail is when the character is not even aware of that boundary. 

Oh I am aware and know that I could be killed for impersonating a free woman but I do keep my collar on (concealed).  The danger of this rp is part of the fun.

Still one of the most hilarious scenes I have played but a good example of what I mean.  I hate the "slave should never XYZ" statements.  It should be when slaves "XYZ" what is your gorean response and please remember this is supposed to be RP on both side. 

[Moon Firegrave]

First and foremost I am a woman that is the essence and the core of my roleplay, that it happens the character I play is “enslaved” is immaterial because the possibilities of roleplay are endless as are the boundaries of imagination.
"A thousand differant woman and always just myself" I liken myself to this quote and it encompases the "completness of me", there are many facades to woman.

I really love to roleplay and to weave stories that inspire my character, settings etc. Unfortunately I am one of those roleplay givers that I rarely recieve quality roleplay in retrospect. This is difficult, somewhat tedious and more so dissapointing, roleplayers are very clicky and if you dont belong to the roleplay circle, you tend to be overlooked and not included. Its dissapointing but it doesnt get me down and i dont take it personally. its just a game.

For me its quality roleplay vs quantity roleplay.  

I stated roleplaying Gor back in 1999 on the old MSN text based Gor chatrooms. That is a very long time by anyones standards.  I roleplay because i find it enjoyable, its an escape, fantasy, marvelous form of entertainment for me and only the marvelous will do! LOL. When it no longer feels like a game/hobby but more of an issue/drama/negative, thats when i step away and move on.

I love roleplaying with Victor and many can take a page from his book on slave roleplay... As there is no IC/OOC discrimination, he includes all slaves nearby and is creative in leading roleplay. 

Diversity. Creativity and Authenticity. These are qualities I look for in role-play.

[Revenge Sempati]

As for me?  I don't play a slave, I refuse.  I play a woman.
Yes, she's enslaved, but that isn't WHO she is.  Somehow there is a difference in my mind.
The most important man in my SL once told me he wanted a "whole woman" and I worked hard to give him that.  Even with him gone, I won't give up being a whole woman.  I just have to look a little harder for those that enjoy playing with me.

Frankly this is some of the best advice for anyone playing anything.  You need to be true to yourself, when you start trimming or faking thing to be what you feel others want you to be you tend to lose the element that attracted them in the first place, and tend to make yourself miserable being something you do not feel naturally.

Regarding the manipulation and the "naughty" slave syndrome.  Yeah, been victim of that but learning and changing my ways thanks to advice of a few people and my general annoyance of not wanting to be a little slap and tickle thrill.  Yes, I will ignored the obvious "pay attention to me" play of some players now because I do not want to deal with that kind of thing I try and put my attention to the girls that are less....forward or demanding.  and I discovered something....those quiet, less flashy slaves tend to provide some great RP.  Perhaps that is discriminatory in itself, but given choice between a "look at me" slave and the one that is constantly overlooked....I am trying to give my time more to the later, we all deserve some attention.

Not sure help but what do I look for in a slave that I am going to play with, what attracts the eyes of Ven.  Not that I am looking for any to put into the old mans chain or anything.
- personality, being natural and 'yourself' (your character)
- engaging, do not have to initiate everything however should not be afraid to try and attract notice without resorting to the "bad girl" methods of acting out
- do not fake it or try to be what you think the old man is looking for.  Here is a secret, Ven enjoys women.  He enjoys everything about them, all facets and sides of a woman and not just her skills in the bed.

and at times, something that can be hard to do, I will play a supporting role in a story....even to a slave character.  That is not to say Ven is submissive, but in terms of the story I as a player am willing to  give up the spotlight to let the story of a RP partner unfold before my own.  

[Poisonous Adored]

I would be interested to know what is the RP that slaves expect from frees.... And when people playing frees will think "Am I worthy of my slave? Do I give her a good RP? Am I for her a good partner for her RP?"

And for me, I consider that frees, more than slaves, need to be educated and trained about Gor, about interactions with slaves, and that the idiots who claim proudly that their slaves are not princesses, are the ones who use the most onlinisms, give the most poor RP to slaves and encourage the cookie cutters ones.

When I saw frees who dont understand that it's just unrealistic to call random slaves in the streets (and without consideration for the RP they were having) to be served a paga in tavern, Im just, bleh.....

If I stopped to play a slave, it was cause these people who are just able to give them poor RP and these fucking lifestylers who mix IC and OOC and who consider people playing slaves as OOC slaves. Recently, I invited one to leave Cyprianus, after he made clear that he expected slave behavior in IM and OOC.

Honestly, in almost 5 years in SL Gor, I can say that slaves are not worse than frees....

@Gnookie, we are speaking in this thread about role play, about characters, about knowledges, about role players... this comment: "It is the Master's responsibility to ensure the slave is living up to his expectations.  The Master must guide his slave in such a manner as to allow her to reach her full potential, teach her how he wants things done, inspire her to try harder, and motivate her to want to learn on her own. "

... is only role play.

Because OOC, it's often the slave who needs to train the guy who play her master.

[Gnookie Hubbenfluff]

i had already deleted the post before your reply sasi.  you might have checked that before hitting post.

and i said specifically in it before doing so, that i am not a lifestyler.

but i disagree with you that it is not up to the slave to teach the master.  maybe in your experience it is. but if the man knows what he is doing, he will show the girl what he wants.

[Linnet Foggarty]

@Gnookie I can see what you are saying, and I agree to an extent.  I have very much enjoyed the RP and storylines that involved my Master teaching my slave character what he likes, what his expectations are, what he considers desirable in a slave.  Shaping her into the vision he has for her.  That kind of RP can be very powerful and enjoyable for both characters.

However, many slaves in SL Gor don't have personal Masters, or not a lot of time with them if they do.  Many are in kennels or on long chains or different time zones and have a lot of time to RP without their owners around.  Those types of scenes and stories are more difficult to get with their owners, and if we have every random free person trying to teach slaves these things it gets very confusing and frustrating for them, IC and OOC.  There is nothing worse than being told you're doing it wrong, changing, then having the next person say you are doing it wrong and to change back.

Aside from what IC a slaves owner wants from her, there are other OOC considerations that have to come into play.  It's not just about learning what your Master's favorite drink is, how he likes you to dress, how he expects you to behave in public, there are bigger preference issues often at play as well including RP style and how much "story" a slave gets beyond just being a slave. 

Edit to add and clarify what I meant about preference:  The type of slave a man wants might not be the type of slave a girl finds enjoyable to play.  I think that's where it can get messy and complicated and feelings get hurt.  This is especially true if a woman indentifies as submissive in RL she can begin to question herself and what she's doing in Gor if she doesn't enjoy RP'ing a slave, or isn't doing it the way people expect her to.  It breaks my heart when I see girls go through that.