A FW with Child but No FC

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Mercy Riiser]

A situation presents itself of a FW who is going to be FC'd in a short time. She sleeps with her intended in the privacy of her home. He then leaves her (and never calls! ) and decides he no longer wants to FC or remain in the city.  She finds herself pregnant shortly thereafter. While she could decide to abort the pregnancy and no one will be the wiser, what happens to her if she continues with the pregnancy and everyone sees that she is with child? 

Does fact that she slept with someone mean she has slave tendancies and therefore is brought before Magistrate to see if she is to be collared?  Similarly, what would happen if a FW is raped after being taken in a raid but is able to runaway and back to her Home Stone?   Your feedback and quotes are much appreciated.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I don't think there are grounds for her to be collared.  If she is free then the child would be born free and obviously the author allowed for this to occur with an FC only lasting for a year.   Free women had sex and the natural result of having sex is children. 

Now what would be problematic in the true gorean context is establishing caste for the child since that comes from the father and they normally have rights to any children born.  Assuming the absent father has relinquished any claims or disappeared, the free woman's family might raise the child in caste or appeal to the high council of the caste for entry if the child could be shown to have aptitude.

[Rayzor McAuley]

My experience has been that relationships in SL Gor end due to OOC issues more times than not.  Taking that into consideration, if nobody but her knows that she got pregnant before he vamoosed on her, she can make an OOC decision to say that she wasn't pregnant to begin with.

[Mercy Riiser]

This FW was trying to see how this situation gets played out IC.

[Rayzor McAuley]

This FW was trying to see how this situation gets played out IC.

I understand that, but it's causes are not IC, so it's really a moot point in my view.

[Wanita Slade]

My experience has been that relationships in SL Gor end due to OOC issues more times than not.  Taking that into consideration, if nobody but her knows that she got pregnant before he vamoosed on her, she can make an OOC decision to say that she wasn't pregnant to begin with.

I second that. Alternatively if she carries forward with the pregnancy IC'ly, I've seen roleplay where the FW finds herself in a pickle. I've seen a few go down this route whereupon it involves interesting storylines of her close friend/s (family even) finding her a suitor fast! Opens up various avenues of exciting and nailbiting possibilities. If she is cool to go with the flow of things and knowing the worst that can envelope then all power to her.

[ramond lax]

If the woman went to the Couch with her intended before she was companioned, she is, quite obviously, couching with him.  That to me is a sign of a desire, and in it's own way, heat.  She let her lust overtake her sense of decorum and Her self restraint.  That is NOT the action of a proper Free woman.  That is the action of a slave. 

As for the Rape comment, that is a situation out of her control. She would not be able to prevent herself from being raped, therefor she could not have been showing heat.  An argument could be made before a magistrate that she was violated against her will. 

 Now, the question is, what could be stopping her from CLAIMING that the Potential FC who jilted her had also raped her prior?  Thus legitimizing her pregnancy, and slapping back at her once Potential Companion?

[Kaitlin Eiren]

If the woman went to the Couch with her intended before she was companioned, she is, quite obviously, couching with him.  That to me is a sign of a desire, and in it's own way, heat.  She let her lust overtake her sense of decorum and Her self restraint.  That is NOT the action of a proper Free woman.  That is the action of a slave. 

As for the Rape comment, that is a situation out of her control. She would not be able to prevent herself from being raped, therefor she could not have been showing heat.  An argument could be made before a magistrate that she was violated against her will. 

 Now, the question is, what could be stopping her from CLAIMING that the Potential FC who jilted her had also raped her prior?  Thus legitimizing her pregnancy, and slapping back at her once Potential Companion?

Just a clarification.  Couching can only be done with someone else's slave and it was only stated to be illegal in Ar.  It isn't relevant in this case since both are free.  There are no quotes that say free women didn't have sex.  It simply says they are frigid and I'm sure frigid sex can get you just as pregnant as wild unrestrained sex and the only person to actually "see" her behaving in such a manner if that were the case is gone.

“I was taken pursuant to the couching laws,” she said.
“I see,” I said. Any free woman who voluntarily couches with another’s slave, or readies herself to do so, becomes the slave of the slave’s master. By such an act, the couching with, or readying herself to couch with, a slave, as though she might be a girl of the slave’s master, thrown to the slave, she shows herself as no more than a slave, and in this act, in law, becomes a slave.
(Magicians of Gor)

The former Ubara had been embonded in accord with the couching law of Marlenus of Ar, any free woman who couches with, or prepares to couch with, a male slave, becomes herself a slave, and the property of the male slave's master. (Swordmen of Gor)

[thyri Carver]

If a FW had sex outside of companionship that produced a child... it might wind up two ways.  The man could be accused of rape.  Interesting RP possibilities there of trial RP.    She could be counteraccused of having slavelike tendencies of wanting to have sex.

FW DID have sex.  They just did not drape themselves over a man's boot humping happily to gooeyness. 

Having sex is not instant grounds for the collar. 

I think a pregnant FW outside of companionship is also good grounds for some scandal RP.  Rumors might fly.  She might be laughed at by other FW for wanting to sleep with men.  She might be laughed at by the men and openly solicited since she had sex outside of companionship.  I think some scarlet letter RP might be rather interesting. 

[Alaria Voss]

Yes it is a plausible scenario.

With lots of different ways the storyline /could/ go.

Perhaps her family will wish to "hide" it and send her "up north"  (or if they live north - down south) to visit the "relatives".  There she could have the child, to a **sob sob ooh dear how sad**  "now dead" companion and the child who reminds her sooooo much of her love...and her broken heart, is "fostered"  with others.    How many people ICly "buy" the story well that is anybody's guess.

Perhaps her family find some schmuck to companion her and thus legitimise her pregnancy.  "oooh yes it is common for prem babies to be over 9lb my luff"  *flutters her eyelashes sweetly*

Perhaps a rival will use the scandal to call her into disrepute.

The problems as I see it, are ooc wants will override the story at some point.  Not wanting to leave her "home sim" even temporarally, not wanting to be companion to some random schmuck, or not wanting the IC conflict from the scandal...or some asshat will come in and say...

"you had sex..you slave nao"

Good luck with the scenario though, it does sound like fun.

[Maria Tisane]

unless the term of a Gorean woman's pregnancy is different than an Earth woman's, it is perfectly feasible for a woman to become pregnant while companioned, and still be pregnant when the companionship expires.  So, it would seem to me that you might frequently see a pregnant and uncompanioned FW.

[ramond lax]

For the longest time in North America, the notion of Unwed Motherhood was frowned upon.  Women who had Premarital Sex were frowned upon.   Did it still happen?  Yes, but they were considered lower in the societies standards.  Now from a modern Point of view we can see this as wrong, but it the time it was accepted and carried forward.  Some of these women were treated quite badly, Far worse than they would have been today, because the Culture at the time had a different perspective on things.

ON Gor, the Cultural Bias is for a Woman to either be one extreme or the other.  They are expected to be either Demure, Ladylike and Proper, or they are expected the wanton sluts.  The Culture does tent to lean towards the slut side as well.  it doesn't take a lot for a man to look at a FW and decide she is more a slut than a Free Woman and collar her.  How many times in the books does a Free woman, upon first seeing a cock and discovering where it goes, suddenly become a willing slave to whichever man is opening his pants...

Now, in the case of the OP, this Free woman had sex with the companion prior to their companionship. the Earth equivalent to Premarital Sex.  AS A Guardian, Parent, or Ward of a FW, I would NOT approve of this, as, where I would have a major say in the companionship of the FW, and would likely make the arrangement for a Profitable end, in some way, this action would be negative.  Why BUY the Bosk when he is getting free milk? 

Also, as I Mentioned in my earlier post, this would be a sign of the woman acting on her sexual Desires.  She either Wants it or she doesn't.  she was either Raped, or she consented.  If she Consented then it could well be argues that she expressed sexual Desire for a man who was not her companion... they WERE Not Yet Companioned... and was therefore showing slave like tendancies, acting lustful, not demure, Acting as a slut, not a proper lady. 

NOW... do you just slap a collar on her and be done???

I would hope not.  she is STILL, until proven otherwise, a Free Woman of your Homestone, and is Due that respect until legally found to be otherwise.  Have the Magistrate call a Trial. Let the Law of the Homestone handle her judgement.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

For the longest time in North America, the notion of Unwed Motherhood was frowned upon.  Women who had Premarital Sex were frowned upon.   Did it still happen?  Yes, but they were considered lower in the societies standards.  Now from a modern Point of view we can see this as wrong, but it the time it was accepted and carried forward.  Some of these women were treated quite badly, Far worse than they would have been today, because the Culture at the time had a different perspective on things.

ON Gor, the Cultural Bias is for a Woman to either be one extreme or the other.  They are expected to be either Demure, Ladylike and Proper, or they are expected the wanton sluts.  The Culture does tent to lean towards the slut side as well.  it doesn't take a lot for a man to look at a FW and decide she is more a slut than a Free Woman and collar her.  How many times in the books does a Free woman, upon first seeing a cock and discovering where it goes, suddenly become a willing slave to whichever man is opening his pants...

Now, in the case of the OP, this Free woman had sex with the companion prior to their companionship. the Earth equivalent to Premarital Sex.  AS A Guardian, Parent, or Ward of a FW, I would NOT approve of this, as, where I would have a major say in the companionship of the FW, and would likely make the arrangement for a Profitable end, in some way, this action would be negative.  Why BUY the Bosk when he is getting free milk? 

Also, as I Mentioned in my earlier post, this would be a sign of the woman acting on her sexual Desires.  She either Wants it or she doesn't.  she was either Raped, or she consented.  If she Consented then it could well be argues that she expressed sexual Desire for a man who was not her companion... they WERE Not Yet Companioned... and was therefore showing slave like tendancies, acting lustful, not demure, Acting as a slut, not a proper lady. 

NOW... do you just slap a collar on her and be done???

I would hope not.  she is STILL, until proven otherwise, a Free Woman of your Homestone, and is Due that respect until legally found to be otherwise.  Have the Magistrate call a Trial. Let the Law of the Homestone handle her judgement.

I think often the problem in gorean RP is that we approach it with a very prudish earth mentality.  The stigma you are attaching to this scenario likely wouldn't exist in Gor with the frequency of free women being captured and also the non existence of an "earth marriage".  The child might even be sold for coin once its born in Gor.  What would be the charges given to a Magistrate?  Who would be the witnesses?  Even if she showed she had "slave urges" there is only one person who knows that fact and simply being pregnant is not testament.  Maybe she was auditioning for the role of FC.

As far as sex before a companionship:
Yet hundreds of the highborn free women of Ar, many rich,  had avidly sought companionship with Clitus Vitellius.  I did not blame them. Had I been a free woman of Ar, I, too, would have sought such companionship. To have such a man as Clitus Vitellius I would have accepted his terms....

“Remove your clothing,” would my master say to a high-born free woman, suing to be considered by him in companionship. She would do so, and be assessed. If he was not pleased, he would send her weeping from his presence, clutching the rag of a slave, to don it and return to her dwelling. If he was not displeased he would gesture to the tiles before him where there waited a goblet of slave wine which she, kneeling before him, would eagerly drink. She would serve him that night as a slave. In the morning, she, nude, would prepare and serve to him his breakfast, after which he would make fresh use of her; he would then send her from his presence, first pressing into her hand a coin, usually a copper tarsk or a silver tarsk, commensurate with the quality of her service. Such women went from his quarters proudly, clad in the full regalia of the free woman. They were not discontent. They had been touched by Clitus Vitellius. Some women claimed that they had earned from Clitus Vitellius a tarn disk of gold.  (Slave Girl of Gor)

[Caliway]

I see the point you are trying to make there Kaitlin, but look at that quote again..."clutching the rag of a slave", "She would serve him that night AS A SLAVE."  to me they more or less validates my point.  These women are whoring themselves, and in response are being treated as though they were slaves.  I don't read that and think they spooned and cuddled... Clitus had what he wanted from them. Treating them as his property for that time.  The women sold their freedom for the night.  He simply chose NOT to keep them longer.  A fact that likely did add to the women's willingness to attempt. 

I am not saying these things DIDN'T happen, I am just imparting my take on the outcome.

And as for the question of Who would charge the woman... Anyone who saw her actions as offensive would.  A rarius who defended the integrity Of the homestone, a village elder sho strives for the purity of his people, a bitchy FW who has thicker ankles...what ever works for the storylines

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I see the point you are trying to make there Kaitlin, but look at that quote again..."clutching the rag of a slave", "She would serve him that night AS A SLAVE."  to me they more or less validates my point.  These women are whoring themselves, and in response are being treated as though they were slaves.  I don't read that and think they spooned and cuddled... Clitus had what he wanted from them. Treating them as his property for that time.  The women sold their freedom for the night.  He simply chose NOT to keep them longer.  A fact that likely did add to the women's willingness to attempt. 

I am not saying these things DIDN'T happen, I am just imparting my take on the outcome.

And as for the question of Who would charge the woman... Anyone who saw her actions as offensive would.  A rarius who defended the integrity Of the homestone, a village elder sho strives for the purity of his people, a bitchy FW who has thicker ankles...what ever works for the storylines

My point is that the only person who could bring charges she acted in a slave like manner is the disappeared father of this child.  In their case it could have been blackmail, it could have been punishment for some slight she offered him or it could have been consensual sex that was nothing like sex with a slave.  I don't see anyone else having the "standing" to do anything to her other than some misguided view of gorean culture simply because she was pregnant and not companioned.