Free Women Wielding Axes

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Kaitlin Eiren]

They still had to do something and not depend on OOC rules for it to be done for them. Which was my point... which ... you are reinforcing now with what you brought forward in the discussion. Or are we to assume that every single FW and slave we come across in BtB Gor has to already be at the state where -she has been put in her place- ? I don't see why the scenarios and processes of that can not be RPed out instead sometimes.

No I would not assume that every FW and slave you come across was already at that state but I would expect that number to be 99%.  The problem in SL Gor is that people do not know how to limit themselves and they do not accept the consequences of their behavior.

Do I feel that GE Gor gives me more opportunity to RP a BtB Warrior or man with less interference of OOC rules and protest: Yes.
Even if there are battles fought by equally armed FW and FM in raids: Yes... even with that trade-off.

What I underlined does not represent that rare 1% and I find it a pretty poor exchange for the male/female dynamic outlined in the books just so on that "rare" occasion a woman is put in her place.  It screams of a farce to put one women in her place when you are surrounded by others certainly acting out of character.

[Anarch]

Do I feel that GE Gor gives me more opportunity to RP a BtB Warrior or man with less interference of OOC rules and protest: Yes.
Even if there are battles fought by equally armed FW and FM in raids: Yes... even with that trade-off.

What I underlined does not represent that rare 1% and I find it a pretty poor exchange for the male/female dynamic outlined in the books just so on that "rare" occasion a woman is put in her place.  It screams of a farce to put one women in her place when you are surrounded by others certainly acting out of character.

I pretty clearly indicated that it was off-topic, and a trade off with which I do not generally agree, but take for what it is. I do not feel like it affects my 'gorean' RP at all. It has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing here.

Edit:
And also if you state the number 99% which is an overwhelmingly grand majority bordering uniformity, most bigger sims still have a several hundred different avatars in their landgroup, which should mean that at least a handful of people would be allowed to RP these 'oddities' out there...

[Kaitlin Eiren]

Do I feel that GE Gor gives me more opportunity to RP a BtB Warrior or man with less interference of OOC rules and protest: Yes.
Even if there are battles fought by equally armed FW and FM in raids: Yes... even with that trade-off.

What I underlined does not represent that rare 1% and I find it a pretty poor exchange for the male/female dynamic outlined in the books just so on that "rare" occasion a woman is put in her place.  It screams of a farce to put one women in her place when you are surrounded by others certainly acting out of character.

I pretty clearly indicated that it was off-topic, and a trade off with which I do not generally agree, but take for what it is. I do not feel like it affects my 'gorean' RP at all. It has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing here.

Last time I checked the OP was on armed free woman and their feasibility in RP and why scenes like this are not played out in BTB sims.  You approached the argument from a GE perspective suggesting it provides you a gorean experience free from OOC contraints so you can now "prove" or "feast" on your male dominance by defeating such an attempt as women with axes in the tavern.  My point to you is it would be a pretty shallow victory to enslave the free women with axes when you walked through a town filled with women with bows.

I do agree that more latitude should be offered in RP for these types of scenes but it has little to do with OOC constraints.  It has more to do with character risk.  In many places this story would be allowed to move forward but not if it occurred every week.  I don't know of a single BTB sim that has "don't pick up an RP axe" in their rules.  Metered combat would not be necessary for this to be played out.  Just do it.  Most FW would not engage in this behavior for the same reasons that most FW in the books would not.  They already know the outcome and they are not looking to be enslaved.

[Ina Anton]

Well have whip in same  GM statistic as  sword... very useful thing when you have to down attacker.
And please not tell me in human nature is fall on ground whining " please no " when someone is going to rape/enslave/ kill you, just because you are a woman  - that is unrealistic and deeply against human nature no mater in Gor or not

[Kaitlin Eiren]

And please not tell me in human nature is fall on ground whining " please no " when someone is going to rape/enslave/ kill you, just because you are a woman  - that is unrealistic and deeply against human nature no mater in Gor or not

Free women in the books have been being trained with the possibility they might one day become slaves from an early age.  I believe that has a lot to do with how they react when actually faced with something they have always known could be a reality.  That is very different from the woman on earth who believes it could never happen to me.  In RP we are supposed to be playing this as if it were "gorean" RP and not earth.  There are countless examples of women only begging "please no" before being enslaved and becoming pretty happy slaves shortly afterward.

[Persis Ishtari]

I must say i dont see this OP so black or white - so BTB or GE - so women being fully armed or not...

I see Eternity state that it would be nice, if women were actually allowed to roleplay that they took up an axe or a sword...as well as take the consequences for doing so afterwards.

Lets say a woman in a BTB sim. She had always played a good, demure FW. She knows her Gor well - if she one day decided to lift a sword against a man in a heated discussion, were taken down and enslaved - would you invalid that roleplay?

I dont think so - if it was played well.....and that is what i think this OP is about. Being more creative, imaginitive and not so narrowminded to what is realistic and what is not. One woman doing this, maybe in an 1:1 or 1:2 roleplay can never cause the sim to suddently allow Xena and a guard of femlaws lead by commandor Miranda to arrive at a later point

[Rayzor McAuley]

Do I feel that GE Gor gives me more opportunity to RP a BtB Warrior or man with less interference of OOC rules and protest: Yes.
Even if there are battles fought by equally armed FW and FM in raids: Yes... even with that trade-off.

What I underlined does not represent that rare 1% and I find it a pretty poor exchange for the male/female dynamic outlined in the books just so on that "rare" occasion a woman is put in her place.  It screams of a farce to put one women in her place when you are surrounded by others certainly acting out of character.

I pretty clearly indicated that it was off-topic, and a trade off with which I do not generally agree, but take for what it is. I do not feel like it affects my 'gorean' RP at all. It has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing here.

Last time I checked the OP was on armed free woman and their feasibility in RP and why scenes like this are not played out in BTB sims.  You approached the argument from a GE perspective suggesting it provides you a gorean experience free from OOC contraints so you can now "prove" or "feast" on your male dominance by defeating such an attempt as women with axes in the tavern.  My point to you is it would be a pretty shallow victory to enslave the free women with axes when you walked through a town filled with women with bows.

I do agree that more latitude should be offered in RP for these types of scenes but it has little to do with OOC constraints.  It has more to do with character risk.  In many places this story would be allowed to move forward but not if it occurred every week.  I don't know of a single BTB sim that has "don't pick up an RP axe" in their rules.  Metered combat would not be necessary for this to be played out.  Just do it.  Most FW would not engage in this behavior for the same reasons that most FW in the books would not.  They already know the outcome and they are not looking to be enslaved.

Quoted for truth.

[Rayzor McAuley]

I must say i dont see this OP so black or white - so BTB or GE - so women being fully armed or not...

I see Eternity state that it would be nice, if women were actually allowed to roleplay that they took up an axe or a sword...as well as take the consequences for doing so afterwards.

Lets say a woman in a BTB sim. She had always played a good, demure FW. She knows her Gor well - if she one day decided to lift a sword against a man in a heated discussion, were taken down and enslaved - would you invalid that roleplay?

I dont think so - if it was played well.....and that is what i think this OP is about. Being more creative, imaginitive and not so narrowminded to what is realistic and what is not. One woman doing this, maybe in an 1:1 or 1:2 roleplay can never cause the sim to suddently allow Xena and a guard of femlaws lead by commandor Miranda to arrive at a later point

You have a very good point, and it is a fine line.  This particular instance I'd have no problem with.  The real key here is what you said "She had always played a good, demure FW. She knows her Gor well...."  I truly think that people do have less of a tendency to ostracize their own when it come to these exceptional cases than they do for some female outsider to appear on the docks with a sword on her hip.

[Nigaltwaddlesworthiii]

"I don't know of a single BTB sim that has "don't pick up an RP axe" in their rules.  Metered combat would not be necessary for this to be played out.  Just do it.  Most FW would not engage in this behavior for the same reasons that most FW in the books would not.  They already know the outcome and they are not looking to be enslaved."

I would add to Kait's post by saying that this is true.. and what would be even better is if the man they strike at were actually hurt..instead of acting like super tarl and avoiding the whole idea..

Women did attack men in the books.. women did kill men in the books.. so lets just agree that the role play of such a thing is not GE.. engage in some different kinds of role play story lines that allows for this kind of thing.. and deal IC with the ICC..

[Bara Mayako]

The real key here is what you said "She had always played a good, demure FW. She knows her Gor well...."  I truly think that people do have less of a tendency to ostracize their own when it come to these exceptional cases than they do for some female outsider to appear on the docks with a sword on her hip.

I suspect, in fact, that this is exactly how something like this would play out.  Not only because the FW is known on the sim, but because she knows the sim, knows the players she's going to do this with as well as the mods and admins, and would probably have done some planning and discussing about the parameters of the RP, knowing that it would lead to her being collared.  Whereas a stranger at the gate with a 3-day cap limit has a lot more options if what she wants is to wear a collar for a few days.

[Persis Ishtari]

The real key here is what you said "She had always played a good, demure FW. She knows her Gor well...."  I truly think that people do have less of a tendency to ostracize their own when it come to these exceptional cases than they do for some female outsider to appear on the docks with a sword on her hip.

I suspect, in fact, that this is exactly how something like this would play out.  Not only because the FW is known on the sim, but because she knows the sim, knows the players she's going to do this with as well as the mods and admins, and would probably have done some planning and discussing about the parameters of the RP, knowing that it would lead to her being collared.  Whereas a stranger at the gate with a 3-day cap limit has a lot more options if what she wants is to wear a collar for a few days.

Yes Bara, thank you for pointing this out. I of course mean a woman of a city. Not just one of theose 'Oh i need some rp...lets see what happens if i tp to xxxx and create some action' - i speak of a serious roleplayer really...

[Elle Couerblanc]

"Most FW would not engage in this behavior for the same reasons that most FW in the books would not.  They already know the outcome and they are not looking to be enslaved."

This is absolutely correct we want to play it like book robots!  But after my own RL experience of two LARGE men entering my home with a gun and this 5ft 2 petite woman's reaction by aggressively running about throwing things at them as she ran for the door, I have a feeling even at least one fear of slavery Free Woman might pick up an axe and go to town.  Fight or Flight is not necessarily a learned behavior - I see it as almost biochemical in nature. So if the women of Gor are biologically human and related to us on earth...why would it be so out of sorts for her to react this way? BUT the player has to be willing to logically accept the consequences of her actions and deal with the repercussions.

Based on my own past experiences, I see Persis's example as real plausible scenario:

Lets say a woman in a BTB sim. She had always played a good, demure FW. She knows her Gor well - if she one day decided to lift a sword against a man in a heated discussion, were taken down and enslaved - would you invalid that roleplay?

I certainly the FW player wouldn't invalidate it and accept the consequences.