Is a Free Woman any Different from a kajira

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May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Husam Darkfire]

I was going to toss my 2 coppers into this folly, but I see that Dove has things well in hand.  I think I'll just prop my feet up on a barrel of mead and watch.

Fills his horn and sits beside Rayzor offering a bowl of fried tarsk rinds

[Revenge Sempati]

It depends on the man, the woman and the nature of things.


However, a free woman is able and permitted to speak her mind.  A slave knows it is rude to speak with her mouth full. 

[Heaven Demina]

LOL.... messy too 

[Rayzor McAuley]

I was going to toss my 2 coppers into this folly, but I see that Dove has things well in hand.  I think I'll just prop my feet up on a barrel of mead and watch.

Fills his horn and sits beside Rayzor offering a bowl of fried tarsk rinds

* Rayzor McAuley reaches over to the bowl...."Don't mind if I do."

[Bara Mayako]

Kajira of Gor - page 137
The Goreans have a saying, “There are only two kinds of women, slaves, and slaves.”

Hunters of Gor - page 102
The Goreans claim that in each woman there is a free companion, proud and beautiful, worthy and noble, and in each, too, a slave girl. The companion seeks for her companion; the slave girl for her master. It is further said, that on the couch, the Gorean girl, whether slave or free, who has had the experience, who has tried all loves, begs for a master. She wishes to belong completely to a man, withholding nothing, permitted to withhold nothing.

Hunters of Gor - page 311
For example, there is no higher person, nor one more respected, than the Gorean free woman. Goreans do believe, however, that every woman has a natural master or set of masters, with respect to whom she could not help but be a complete and passionate slave girl.

Raiders of Gor - page 155
No woman, it is said, knows truly what she is until she has worn the collar.

Tribesmen of Gor - page 43
the slave girl experiences a paradox of freedom; the free woman is physically free, but miserable, fighting to be what she is not; the slave girl, physically in bondage, even to the collar, sometimes chains, is given no choice by men but to be totally and precisely what she is, slave; 
 
Magicians of Gor - page 160
Slavery, of course, is the surest path by means of which a woman can discover her femininity. The paradox of the collar is the freedom which a woman experiences in at last finding herself, and becoming herself.

Explorers of Gor - page 47
Slave fires, of course, lurk in every woman. It is only a question of arousing them. 

Priest Kings of Gor - page 67
According to Gorean way of looking at things a taste of the slave ring is thought to be occasionally beneficial to all women, even the exhalted free Companions.... It is the gorean way of reminding her, should she need be reminded, that she too, is a woman, and thus to be dominated, to be subject of men.

Nomads of Gor - page 63
The Gorean girl is, even if free, accustomed to slavery; she will perhaps own one or more slaves herself; she knows that she is weaker than men and what this can mean; she knows that cities fall and caravans are plundered; she knows she might even, by a sufficiently bold warrior, be captured in her own quarters and, bound and hooded, be carried by tarnback over the wall of her own city. Moreover, even if she is never enslaved, she is familiar with the duties of slaves and what is expected of them; if she should be enslaved she will know, on the whole, what is expected of her what is permitted her and not; moreover the Gorean girl is literally educated, fortunately or not, to the notion that it is of great importance to know how to please men; accordingly, even girls who will be free companions, and never slaves, learn the preparation and serving of exotic dishes, the art of walking, and standing, and being beautiful, the care of a mans equipment, the love dances of their city, and so on.

Mercenaries of Gor - page 422
"You are, after all a free woman, and free women are entitled to insult, and attempt to demean and destroy men. It is one of their freedoms, unless men, of course, should decide to take it from them. 

It would seem to me, from these quotes, that the difference is that a Free Woman is a slave who is allowed by men to deny her true nature, and a slave is a Free Woman who is allowed or forced by men to embrace her true nature.

[Gaea Andel]

Question, did Free Women also have some run of the day to day finances of the house? I could see her male companion with other things to do leaving up to his companion where the money was being spent on, but don't know if there was anything in the books confirming this.

I don't know about in all Gor but in Swordsmen, Pani Free women were in charge of their companion's finances, often paying the bill for the man's stay at the pleasure house and/or purchasing him a contract woman and slaves.

[Adoveea Rau]

Oh yeah.
Bluntly when you go down to rock bottom in a nutshell
Slaves have sexual freedom
Free Woman have all the rest of freedoms but no sexual freedom

So there's a huge difference between slaves and FW in their freedoms. I listed out what the FW has for freedoms, that the slave doesn't.

The major premise in gor is that great sex by a gorean man releases the female from being sexually repressed and she becomes fulfilled as a woman. Then that woman is hooked on that sexual aspect until she finds the perfect companion/master to fufill all her needs.

That is why it's called fantasy roleplay *chuckles*.

[RavingRob Radek]

I was going to toss my 2 coppers into this folly, but I see that Dove has things well in hand.  I think I'll just prop my feet up on a barrel of mead and watch.

Fills his horn and sits beside Rayzor offering a bowl of fried tarsk rinds

* Rayzor McAuley reaches over to the bowl...."Don't mind if I do."

Wanders over with a good sized platter of vulo wings & passes them around

[Mathilde Niosaki]

I have ran across *ahem* men who think this way. Let's see...

My friend and I were threatened to be collared by a man from another Home Stone during Sardar Fair for speaking to him. Speaking our mind but not being disrespectful at all.

A low caste man threatens to collar a high caste woman on their own Home Stone and slaps.. yes, slaps her face for no transgression on her part. This is being dealt with ic by the way.

Treats us like a kajirae in skirts or threatens to collar us if we even dare to sneeze. 

I could go on.

I think the difference between a kajira and free woman is difference in freedom. Kajirae are free to express their sexuality, sensuality and desire. Free women are not allowed to do so in public. Of course, there are some free women who say that it shouldn't be expressed at all even to one's companions or even in privacy of one's home.. but I believe that to be meta gaming. What people choose to do in privacy of their own home is their business.. unless of course the city makes laws regarding that. Free women in turn are allowed to express their ideas, opinions, and have a lot more freedom in regards to her place in society. As Lady Dove mentioned.. all the powers that free women have that slaves wouldn't.

I base my free woman character on women of ancient Greece and Rome where John Norman got his inspiration from when describing city-states of the south. I love the movie "300" and base my character on the women of Sparta. I think this clip exemplifies in my mind the world of Gor perfectly,

http://youtu.be/EmOH5f1J1Uc

I love at the end how he looks at her for some sort of approval from his queen before commencing with the killing of the messenger. I think it's more like a partnership rather than dominant/submissive relationship that slaves have with their master. I find it difficult to play a free woman for the reasons I mentioned above- it does get rather stifling at times. I do believe in ica=icc. I know that men rule the Gorean world and that my freedom can be taken at any time.. However, it gets frustrating when every time I open my mouth, it's collar this and collar that. I am lucky to be in a city where most men are NOT like this.

But on the flip side, there are free women who scream like banshees, do act like kajirae in skirts or think because they own a sim; they can do whatever they want without any ic consequences. Which sort of blankets the entire free women into these characterization when some are serious about their role  and have researched extensively about the role they choose to play.

[Mercy Riiser]

I have ran across *ahem* men who think this way. Let's see...

My friend and I were threatened to be collared by a man from another Home Stone during Sardar Fair for speaking to him. Speaking our mind but not being disrespectful at all.

A low caste man threatens to collar a high caste woman on their own Home Stone and slaps.. yes, slaps her face for no transgression on her part. This is being dealt with ic by the way.

Treats us like a kajira in skirt or threatens to collar us if we even dare to sneeze. 

I could go on.

If the FW did as you say they did, no FW should be treated like that within their Home Stone. If anything the FM should be brought up on charges. They may not get a very serious punishment but I think they truly overstepped their bounds.  The FW involved should speak with the Magistrate.  Just a thought!   

[Mathilde Niosaki]

I have ran across *ahem* men who think this way. Let's see...

My friend and I were threatened to be collared by a man from another Home Stone during Sardar Fair for speaking to him. Speaking our mind but not being disrespectful at all.

A low caste man threatens to collar a high caste woman on their own Home Stone and slaps.. yes, slaps her face for no transgression on her part. This is being dealt with ic by the way.

Treats us like a kajira in skirt or threatens to collar us if we even dare to sneeze. 

I could go on.

If the FW did as you say they did, no FW should be treated like that within their Home Stone. If anything the FM should be brought up on charges. They may not get a very serious punishment but I think they truly overstepped their bounds.  The FW involved should speak with the Magistrate.  Just a thought!   

Aye, we did go see the magistrate last night and he said he would take care of it. Now, we are trying to find her a guardian ic. Thanks

[Snooks]

Kafka,

The difference between a FW and a slave is less about the liberties or lack of which she has. Its a legal status.
There are a lot of misnomers in online Gor which, in my opinion, only serve to confuse the difference.

Its also not about Norman contradicting himself. It helps to remember the series is one man's journey from seeing the world around him through the eyes of a earth thinking man, to seeing the world around him through the eyes of a gorean thinking man.

What is the one single thing a FW can ONLY do, that a slave can NEVER, EVER, do? That a slave absolutely cannot make the choice to do regardless of the consequeces? Its just one.
Its not making her own decisions. The books show us this isn't the case when a FW can be forced into an arranged Companionship by her father or eldest male of her family or be chained to the foot of her Companions couch, denied padding or covering regardless of her discomfort or screams he's a rotten SOB she'll seek revenge on. It has nothing to do with not having the ability to show her desires. She has the choice to, of course, with reprecussions. Just as a slave actualy has the choice to not showthose same desires, also with reprecussions.

Anarch! I'm amazed you didn't nail this one

Only a FW can bear children who are also free. This is one of the few universals in Gor. It crosses geographical boundries north, south, east and west. Its because of her legal status. A slave can carry the child of a Free man but she has to be granted freedom to bare his offspring with the legal status of being free. The books tell us their normally enslaved immediatly after the child is born. Which is an interesting topic for another thread. If the slave has the legal status of being free, and free women view their one biggest protection from being enslaved the protection granted them by Merchant law, how could this Free Woman, be so easily and quickly re-enslaved? Hint: The Merchant law is the most minor of more and the most fallible.


Has anyone wondered why slavery was one of the three pillars given the books present such a small percentage of the female population on Gor was enslaved? Institutional slavery is a part of what defines Gorean culture as being a Male dominated world.