Should Donating be a Monthly Rp Holiday?

Donations of any size and regularity are always welcome to help offset the costs of maintaining this site.

May 2012

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May 28 - Memorial Day

[Sayrax wiefel]

Good evening folks, just a small conversation, I would like to stoke and see if we can get a thinking response to.


Folks go about buying new weapons, new dress, shoes, slave collars things of that nature. You see a sim close down here or their due to not having enough money or such, or folks going out in extraordinary ways to raise funds. Do you believe that things should be developed towards, encouraging donations instead of buying all these fancy stuff, that neglecting buying that cool new thing, can help keep your home open?  To put a priority of helping maintain the payment to the house, before you buy a new shoes?  This topic does not include those that scrape by on sl, not buying things nad looking for the 30L sales and such, so please do not sidetrack into that void. We all know not everyone is rich and can't be afforded. We are solely talking about those that purchase alot, yet don't show appreciation much, with a goal of encouraging awareness of donating to your home sim to help support it.

Would just like folks reaction and thoughts of such an efforts, thank you.

[Mercy Riiser]

Unfortunately, I think alot of people never think about the cost of running a sim...not just the tier costs but everything else.  Too many sim owners, in my experience, don't something anything about this on a regular basis.  I think every sim should regularly encourage people to donate $ to help keep the place going. Maybe someone other then the sim owner should do this but someone should.

[Reven]

Theres mixed feelings I guess when it comes to helping keep a Sim afloat. Dont get me wrong Ill donate to the Sims I enjoy playing on.

But there is also sims that demand you donate and if you dont they make you feel small about it. I have so much clothes hair shoes and everything Its a joke. But I will donate when I remember and see a tip jar somewhere.

I just hate feeling obligated to donate. Where if its left open. then I dont feel guilty if i forget to donate that month

[Xaz Elephas]

I send out notices about 2x a month in Ka'zahr thanking those who have donated and asking if anyone walks by the sim tip jars and you have a few extra lindens to toss in we would be very thankful.   I don't like sending these out more then 2x a month because I don't like to annoy people with spam.  We opened Ka'zahr on the belief that we would pay for it... and would never charge anyone to play on the sim.  We rarely have fundraisers and the day we can not afford to run it will just shut down.

[Wanita Slade]

Donation jars at the entry point of any sim is welcome and donations are made at the discretion of any person. Just like in the real world when someone approaches you with a charity appeal, you give what you can afford. I don't feel it is ethical to tell someone not to buy this weapon or that outfit and that their money is better spent towards the sim. Donating is akin to gifting and it should be made without force, intimidation or authority.
                                                       
Any person with interest to own a sim should not make such a commitment provided they know they are well able to afford it and not just a case of fun which results in short-lived existence and without doubt, puts paid to your real life (unpaid heating bills, hungry children, and incessant calls from creditors etc). No one is obligated in whatever shape or form to finance your monthly tier and should not be made to feel they are expected too either.

Through experience, I have heard people who donate to a sim (small to large amounts) through positive experiences. That I feel should be the main focus of exercise. Finally given the present economic climate, it would be unfair to measure any person's commitment by the amount of lindens they fork out. Perhaps most of you are fortunate but at my end, I'm constantly learning of family and friends who have lost their homes, jobs and are struggling to even put food on the table. That said, some people give back to a sim through their tireless efforts of roleplay and cultivating storylines which provide steady if not consistent intriguing rp for all to enjoy.

[Shyla Timeless]

Owning a sim is just like running a business; a person must have enough funds to support the business (sim) independant of their regular monthly living expenses.  If you are unable to budget or forcast a spending plan seperate from what you need for personal expenses, you should not blow money on a virtual playground.

I am a firm beliver that a person can assist with sim needs in more ways than one but financial assistance should not be expected nor should a person be made to feel bad because they can't hellp in THAT way.  You would not buy a party limo, invite your friends along for a good time and then call the when the first, second or tenth payment is due. 

And I think it is pretty stinky to suggest people quit spending their money on things that make them happy for whatever reason.  Hair, shoes blah, blah, blah.  Whatever it is, it is a personal CHOICE to spend it on those things just like the sim owner(s) made the CHOICE to buy/fund a sim.

In closing, I have always made financial contributions to the sims I play at BUT I plan ahead and include an amount in my real life budget.  I look at SL as a gym membership; I know I will need or use X amount each month, I buy the Lindens and then I blow them on whatever suits my fancy ... to include dropping some in the donation box.

[Bhoamar Landfall]

I having been on both ends of this discussion. I owned a sim for 2 years and, for the most part, paid the tier on My own for the better part of a year of that. After a major health issue I ended up selling and taking hp residence in other sims. I always contributed to the sim. Now I am back to owning and have a groiup of people that contribute monthly towrds teir making it easy to keep it.

I think that people should contribute to the sim they are active in. They become vested in the sim and feel as if they have a part in the growing of it. Should they HAVE to contribute, no, but do not bitch if the sim goes ina direction you do not like. And if you do not contribute do not say whoa is Me when one day it goes poof.

[Arica Storaro]

I personally think that expecting people to donate and even count on it is the very, very wrong approach. You either can afford a sim..or you cannot.

 I personally never get involved too much in sims that seem to rely heavily on the Lindens that come from donations, auctions and markets. They often have a tendency to close all of a sudden because the owner realized relying on people for money doesn't quite work more often than not.

Setting up a donating prim is fine. Setting up tons all over the sim is not cool and appears to me like begging. Sending out notices as 'reminders' that there are donating jars in teh sim puts me off. I am not blind, if I want to donate, I will.

Basically, I am of the very firm belief that the most stable sims are those that 1. do not need a market 2. do not rely on donations and 3. have -one- single owner who can afford the sim easily and has a job in rl. Buying a sim when you cannot really afford it is, imho, not very responsible. Understandable, but not responsible.

[Anarch]

The disrespect you get as a sim owner is sometimes very appalling though.

I'm not gonna say that people should pay for the sims they are RPing in... that's something the sim owners provide. But what really should be left behind is the snideness or sometimes just outright rude remarks and demands that are made on how the sim is not decently run. How this and that could be done better by moderators. Etc...

The sim owners have the final say in things... Doesn't matter if you're a council-member or not. Or have been RPing on the sim longer than the new owners. Money talks, all the rest is silent.

[Keth Saunders]

Most of it has been covered above, but there seems to be one more thing on the list that simply puts of people from donating. Well, "puts off" wouldn't be the exact term. Lots of times I've seen and heard from quite a few people who don't have too many lindens but still wish to support sims, even if that's means squeezing the very last linden they have, that they feel embarrassed to donate, even if it's 100L which would move closer the tier payment by that much, when the donation box lists who donated last and how much. So when they see this and that donated 10.000L before them, they seem to feel a bit indifferent about donating 100. I guess that might be something to think about.
Now, adding to that, I think those donation indicators are good that list how much was donated so far, and how much to go to the designated sum to cover for tier costs, but without listing about donors. I guess that might get people to think more positive in the sense of donating, although it could also be seen as an imposing way to say "Give us your lindens because we pay for your fun".
Supporting the sim you enjoy is good, and should be encouraged, but expecting or demanding it, might be a bit presumptuous.

[Delaynie Barbosa]

I don't think a sim should be funded by donations alone. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to expect sim owners to carry the costs, not just of tier, but of uploads, group fees, equipment and props, etc, when everyone who lives on a given sim generally spends hours at a time there, may have a house there, which they may or may not pay for. We are all responsible for own RP experience, and loyalty is a part of that experience. That said no one should be forced to donate or made to feel small if they don't. Depending on donations alone is a surefire way to fall short of possible expenses. Business owners expect to not only recoup expenses, but make a profit.  not to say that RP  sims need to make a profit since they aren't business sims, like say commercial mall sims or housing sims, but it is my belief that owners should not be expected to carry the costs alone when they share it with so many others.

Other ways to raise funds:

- Charge for housing.   Even tiny bits.   100L a week on 30 prims is a reasonable amount to expect people to pitch in for their own housing.

- Allow regular players to furnish their shops themselves. This will save sim owners setup costs on furniture and bring personal expression to shops. Things don't need to match. I mean, walk down main street in your town, tell me if Sally Beauty, Play it Again Sports, Hot Topic, Starbucks, and Great Clips are all furnished to match. No, they aren't. And certainly interiors didn't match then either. Building textures are already taken care of. Close doors and windows on empty shops. As long as there's not too many it won't look bad.

- When buying furniture and props, ask friends and sim residents to help you out first. They will often be happy to help. From my own experience, I made the camp collar and did the small detail work on Fort Selnar for nothing, I think my total cost ran about L$1200 from uploads and a few sculpt packs. I also made the chastity belt, Dina brand, and coin slut coin box for Clearchus for a total of L$500. I probably didn't donate those months since i absorbed some of the costs. But, at the same time, no one in charge was out anything. It works both ways.

- If you have to buy, shop for no copy furniture. It can be sold later to recoup some of the expense. And buy from the used and yard sale sections of the listings and marketplace. It will be cheaper and once again you can resell it.

- Raise the rent on mall space.  125-250 a week is too low when Gorean outfits cost 400 and up.

I justify a raise because I am a retailer myself. If I'm not making at least one sale a week at a place I leave. Rent should be about the average cost of an item, so 300-400 a week. Some retailers will make it, some won't. The ones who don't, will leave even if rent is 50L a week, because that's 50L out of their pocket. And forget the whole, "I don't make a lot of money," line; it's not a sim owner's problem if a retailer can't make the rent - clear th space for someone who will. (Especially when people are giving their work away on 25L Tuesdays).  Raise the rent. The ones who will make it will stay, and so will the ones who find value in just being in high traffic places.


So, let's do a little math:

100/week on 12 housing spaces = 1200 wk/ 4800 month

350/wk on mall space on 10 spaces = 3500/wk = 14000 month

Estimated savings on other suggestions - 2,000/month

Total: 20,800. 

According to the Lindex today, that's about $80 USD.  Almost 1/3 of tier.

Donation buckets can still be made available to offset costs, regular visitors and residents who don't run businesses - say red caste, slaves, animal players, etc, will still give what they can when they can, even if it's 100L once a month.

[Theoden Resident]

I may be caught a little vulnerable in my argument seeing as Cyprianus is only a few months old. However I do think that sim costs should be as high as freakin' possible, so people would stop opening them. There are way too many sims in Gor and not enough people.

[Bhoamar Landfall]

I may be caught a little vulnerable in my argument seeing as Cyprianus is only a few months old. However I do think that sim costs should be as high as freakin' possible, so people would stop opening them. There are way too many sims in Gor and not enough people.

You are a sim owner I take it

[Arica Storaro]

I don't think a sim should be funded by donations alone. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to expect sim owners to carry the costs, not just of tier, but of uploads, group fees, equipment and props, etc, when everyone who lives on a given sim generally spends hours at a time there, may have a house there, which they may or may not pay for. We are all responsible for own RP experience, and loyalty is a part of that experience. That said no one should be forced to donate or made to feel small if they don't. Depending on donations alone is a surefire way to fall short of possible expenses. Business owners expect to not only recoup expenses, but make a profit.  not to say that RP  sims need to make a profit since they aren't business sims, like say commercial mall sims or housing sims, but it is my belief that owners should not be expected to carry the costs alone when they share it with so many others.

Other ways to raise funds:

- Charge for housing.   Even tiny bits.   100L a week on 30 prims is a reasonable amount to expect people to pitch in for their own housing.

- Allow regular players to furnish their shops themselves. This will save sim owners setup costs on furniture and bring personal expression to shops. Things don't need to match. I mean, walk down main street in your town, tell me if Sally Beauty, Play it Again Sports, Hot Topic, Starbucks, and Great Clips are all furnished to match. No, they aren't. And certainly interiors didn't match then either. Building textures are already taken care of. Close doors and windows on empty shops. As long as there's not too many it won't look bad.

- When buying furniture and props, ask friends and sim residents to help you out first. They will often be happy to help. From my own experience, I made the camp collar and did the small detail work on Fort Selnar for nothing, I think my total cost ran about L$1200 from uploads and a few sculpt packs. I also made the chastity belt, Dina brand, and coin slut coin box for Clearchus for a total of L$500. I probably didn't donate those months since i absorbed some of the costs. But, at the same time, no one in charge was out anything. It works both ways.

- If you have to buy, shop for no copy furniture. It can be sold later to recoup some of the expense. And buy from the used and yard sale sections of the listings and marketplace. It will be cheaper and once again you can resell it.

- Raise the rent on mall space.  125-250 a week is too low when Gorean outfits cost 400 and up.

I justify a raise because I am a retailer myself. If I'm not making at least one sale a week at a place I leave. Rent should be about the average cost of an item, so 300-400 a week. Some retailers will make it, some won't. The ones who don't, will leave even if rent is 50L a week, because that's 50L out of their pocket. And forget the whole, "I don't make a lot of money," line; it's not a sim owner's problem if a retailer can't make the rent - clear th space for someone who will. (Especially when people are giving their work away on 25L Tuesdays).  Raise the rent. The ones who will make it will stay, and so will the ones who find value in just being in high traffic places.


So, let's do a little math:

100/week on 12 housing spaces = 1200 wk/ 4800 month

350/wk on mall space on 10 spaces = 3500/wk = 14000 month

Estimated savings on other suggestions - 2,000/month

Total: 20,800. 

According to the Lindex today, that's about $80 USD.  Almost 1/3 of tier.

Donation buckets can still be made available to offset costs, regular visitors and residents who don't run businesses - say red caste, slaves, animal players, etc, will still give what they can when they can, even if it's 100L once a month.

How is that ridiculous? It was their own choice to buy a sim, fully knowing the costs beforehand. They had all time in the world to evaluate the costs for it and wether or not they can afford it. I have yet to meet a single simowner who buys a sim for purely selfless reasons. 90% of the simowners buy sims to build up -their- own playground, and because it is so terribly boring to play all alone with yourself each day, they open their sims to the public and hope others will join in.

[Sayrax wiefel]

- Raise the rent on mall space.  125-250 a week is too low when Gorean outfits cost 400 and up.

I justify a raise because I am a retailer myself. If I'm not making at least one sale a week at a place I leave. Rent should be about the average cost of an item, so 300-400 a week. Some retailers will make it, some won't. The ones who don't, will leave even if rent is 50L a week, because that's 50L out of their pocket. And forget the whole, "I don't make a lot of money," line; it's not a sim owner's problem if a retailer can't make the rent - clear th space for someone who will. (Especially when people are giving their work away on 25L Tuesdays).  Raise the rent. The ones who will make it will stay, and so will the ones who find value in just being in high traffic places. 

Now its time for me to be a dick...those spots ARE Horrible if your planning on making money, theya re advertising slots...not store slots. You need to think of them as a billboard for your store, when folks are traveling tot he highway of rp, not as a traveling store. 150 a week is actually expensive, hiking up your prices will only leave you with empty market stalls.  Fina hiked up their stall prices by 50L i think, and they lost a 3rd of their market making less then what they had at the start. Market space is competivie like anywhere else, you can hike up your prices, but ill just advertise elsewhere that has cheaper spot at the same ratio of traffic. If you have high costs, and empty market spots. The only thing your going to get form me, is a offer for an affilate vendor to fill in yoru holes, not my rental costs sorry.