Changing Your Last Name

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May 2012

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[pasy namiboo]

Gasps at Kail's post!

You mean it was not a rare thing for a man to free one of his slaves and companion her? ::Face palms with home alone facial expression:: 

To the OP, well then what about the slave who has been freed to companion? What if she had no last name before the companionship? Is it alright then to take the man's name?

[Kail Lefevre]

You mean it was not a rare thing for a man to free one of his slaves and companion her? ::Face palms with home alone facial expression::  Shocked

Haha. No, in fact you can almost say it was suggested at very early on by the woman in my quote that said her bride price was 100 tarns. She was a slave, he freed her, her father would give her BACK to him as a companion, and all he had to do was ask. Though in reading that part I never got why a man would reward Tarl for returning his daughter to him by sending her back with him. I see shades of " Here's your daughter back!" " Thanks for returning her, she is yours in payment of returning her, you can leave now" " eh, no really, here she is, you can have her back" " No, no I insist, you saved her fair and square, she is all yours" " No, look I can't keep her, take her, she is your daughter" " No, you take her damn it, do you know how long it look me to wait until there was a tarn raid to push her ass off on some poor tarnsman, now you take her and get out of here"  some where in that way of thinking. Maybe it is just me.

Later again at the end of that book when Tarl chooses to FC the woman he had been leading around gor on a leash half the book. Very common in fact.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

To the OP, well then what about the slave who has been freed to companion? What if she had no last name before the companionship? Is it alright then to take the man's name?

A slaves original name would be returned.  That would even include a barbarian slave from earth with the typical last name.  Even a bred passion slaves would have documented linage.  Something else to note is that in gorean society it was not necessary to have a second name so being without would not create a scenario where one would need to create one simply because they were companioned.  Any children born of the companionship would hold the name of the father.

Elizabeth and I wished Relius and his Companion, Virginia Kent, well. (Assassin of Gor) - Freed barbarian slave original name

I could probably have Claudia Tentia Hinrabia, of the Builders, who had been the daughter of Claudius Tentius Hinrabius, once Ubar of Ar, but she was now without family.  Marlenus, in whose palace she held her residence, probably, in his generosity, would have seen that she accepted my proposal. I recalled she had once been slave, and that I had, on a certain occasion, in the house of Cernus, seen her fully. (Hunters of Gor) - Freed FW original name

[Husam Darkfire]

You mean it was not a rare thing for a man to free one of his slaves and companion her? ::Face palms with home alone facial expression::  Shocked

Haha. No, in fact you can almost say it was suggested at very early on by the woman in my quote that said her bride price was 100 tarns. She was a slave, he freed her, her father would give her BACK to him as a companion, and all he had to do was ask. Though in reading that part I never got why a man would reward Tarl for returning his daughter to him by sending her back with him. I see shades of " Here's your daughter back!" " Thanks for returning her, she is yours in payment of returning her, you can leave now" " eh, no really, here she is, you can have her back" " No, no I insist, you saved her fair and square, she is all yours" " No, look I can't keep her, take her, she is your daughter" " No, you take her damn it, do you know how long it look me to wait until there was a tarn raid to push her ass off on some poor tarnsman, now you take her and get out of here"  some where in that way of thinking. Maybe it is just me.

Later again at the end of that book when Tarl chooses to FC the woman he had been leading around gor on a leash half the book. Very common in fact.

I'm sending you the bill for getting the beer cleaned off my keyboard from laughing after taking a drink. I can almost see swords drawn with the looser having to keep her.

[Kail Lefevre]

I'm sending you the bill for getting the beer cleaned off my keyboard from laughing after taking a drink. I can almost see swords drawn with the looser having to keep her.

Haha, sorry. That'll teach me for writting a post after a Miles Vorkosigan reading marathon.

A slaves original name would be returned.

To a point. Tarl continues if I am not mistaken to use not only his real name but the name of Bosk, his slave name, also.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

A slaves original name would be returned.

To a point. Tarl continues if I am not mistaken to use not only his real name but the name of Bosk, his slave name, also.

In the case of Tarl Cabot his name was returned (by default) but it was his personal choice to no longer use that name Tarl Cabot of Ko ra ba, Warrior, because he believed he had been dishonored by becoming a slave.  Following Marauders when he felt his honor had been restored it is quite evident he uses both identities or is known by both when it suits his purposes depending on the current mission.

[Kail Lefevre]

I concede your point, it was his choice. Which I had never completely disagreed with you completely any how.

I merely wonder when so much else about Free Companionship is busted and broke. Why worry about this one thing.

*EDIT*

I guess you could say, Gotta start some where, and I guess you would be right. For me though, this seems like some thing you can't fix. Because in SL, like RL, all relationships are consensual; I think that it is impossible to role play a free companionship the way you should. A man only need show up to a willing father with her bride price and she is sold off, almost like a slave. A free slave, one with less freedom in some ways, more in others. I have never seen it done like this. I don't know one woman who is companioned to some one she doesn't want to be in SL.

[Kaitlin Eiren]

I concede your point, it was his choice. Which I had never completely disagreed with you completely any how.

I merely wonder when so much else about Free Companionship is busted and broke. Why worry about this one thing.

*EDIT*

I guess you could say, Gotta start some where, and I guess you would be right. For me though, this seems like some thing you can't fix. Because in SL, like RL, all relationships are consensual; I think that it is impossible to role play a free companionship the way you should. A man only need show up to a willing father with her bride price and she is sold off, almost like a slave. A free slave, one with less freedom in some ways, more in others. I have never seen it done like this. I don't know one woman who is companioned to some one she doesn't want to be in SL.

I would disagree that much is busted with current companionships.  Certainly there are players who don't enjoy going through the steps of the entire process and it may lack the financial and political motivations we see in the books but all that is required is a shared glass of wine.  Most other things can be handled a multitude of ways.  As far as focusing on this one thing it is yet another point of clarification to those who might wonder or assume the custom would mimic an earth marriage.  I thought it was an interesting question and one that could be answered definitively unlike others.

ETA: There are also women in the books who choose their own companions rather than being sold off.  OOCly I was in agreement with my companionship but I did enjoy quite a bit making sure ICly he did not know that even including threatening to poison him.    He and my IC brother also had a great time keeping me in the dark about the negotiations which went from a few barrels of black beans to 100 gold depending on Dren's mood in agreeing to a price.  It was all quite entertaining so I hope others will look at it differently and play it differently.  I loved the RP of Minerva paying for an FC and Dove's RP was also pretty hilarious.  I'm still not sure she is companioned.  Not everyone follows the same script.

[Kail Lefevre]

We will have to agree to disagree then on how busted FC rp is in SL. Your story sounds fun, and I am happy that you managed to come to some thing that was closer then most. Most don't get that much. I find your story to be the exception, not the rule.

Off topic, I knew your name was ringing a bell for me some where. Dren you say? I know you from Tafa don't I?

[Kaitlin Eiren]

We will have to agree to disagree then on how busted FC rp is in SL. Your story sounds fun, and I am happy that you managed to come to some thing that was closer then most. Most don't get that much. I find your story to be the exception, not the rule.

Off topic, I knew your name was ringing a bell for me some where. Dren you say? I know you from Tafa don't I?

Yes plenty of FCs seem like modern day weddings but I think it will just take time and some examples of it being done differently so we don't disagree too much on how prevalent the issues are.

Let's see...hmm last time you saw me I was getting your opinion on a new outfit.  I love that pink skirt and you seemed to as well.  I would say yes you know me. *innocent look*

[Shemar Hanly]

Hopeful this is on topic but I was told that you do not use names unless given the name first to use with the person you are talking to? But , I found this information and would like to know if it is correct: ?

On Gor their is First,Second and Third Knowledge. too explain :


First Knowledge: is very primative behavior and mindset,they believe the Planet is flat. first knowledge people are usually of the lower caste in most cases. they are very superstitious. They believe that ones first name holds magic, they further more believe that each person has a surname, or a use name. Most would not know how to Read and write unless there particular low caste, or subcaste requires such. they are aware of the Present, what the eye can see only.

An Example: Dephyrius Talon, Wishes to be called Talon Only. If you Used the name Dephyrius He would become Quite offended. the reason, The understanding and belief of First Knowledge.

On the level of the First Knowledge, it is maintained that knowing the real name gives one power over a person, a capacity to use that name in spells and insidious magical practices. Perhaps something of the same sort lingers even on our native Earth, where the first name of a person is reserved for use by those who know him intimately and presumably wish him no harm. The second name, which would correspond to the use-name on Gor, is common property, a public sound not sacred or to be protected. At the level of the Second Knowledge, of course, the High Castes, at least in general, recognise the baseless superstition of the Lower Castes and use their own names comparatively freely, usually followed by the name of their city. For example, I would have given my name as Tarl Cabot of Ko-ro-ba, or, more simply, as Tarl of Ko-ro-ba. The Lower Castes, incidentally, commonly believe that the names of the High Castes are actually use-names and that the High Castes conceal the real names. ----------Pg 58-59, Tarnsman

I am Zosk," he said.
I wondered if it were a use-name, or his real name. Members of low caste often call themselves by a use-name, reserving the real name for intimates and
friends, to protect it against capture by a sorcerer or worker of spells who might use it to do them harm. Somehow I sensed that Zosk was his real name.
--Outlaws page 30

It might be mentioned, at any rate, that many Goreans, particularly those of lower caste, and who are likely to have had access only to the "first knowledge", take things of this sort very seriously, believing they are witness not to tricks and illusions but to marvelous phenomena consequent upon the gifts and powers of unusual individuals, sorcerers or magicians.-----MAGICIANS OF GOR, PG, CHAPTER 17

Earth origin, incidentally,was not a part of the First Knowledge, though it was of the second.'Torm,' I once asked, 'why is Earth origin not part of the First Knowledge?' 'Is it not self-evident?' he asked. 'No,' I said. 'Ah!' he said, and closed his eyes very slowly and kept them shut for about a minute, during which time he was apparently subjecting the matter to the most intense scrutiny. 'You're right,' he said at last, opening his eyes. 'It is not self-evident.'--------- Pg 45, Tarns-man
I am Zosk," he said.
I wondered if it were a use-name, or his real name. Members of low caste often call themselves by a use-name, reserving the real name for intimates and
friends, to protect it against capture by a sorcerer or worker of spells who might use it to do them harm. Somehow I sensed that Zosk was his real name.
--Outlaws page 30

It might be mentioned, at any rate, that many Goreans, particularly those of lower caste, and who are likely to have had access only to the "first knowledge", take things of this sort very seriously, believing they are witness not to tricks and illusions but to marvelous phenomena consequent upon the gifts and powers of unusual individuals, sorcerers or magicians.-----MAGICIANS OF GOR, PG, CHAPTER 17

Earth origin, incidentally,was not a part of the First Knowledge, though it was of the second.'Torm,' I once asked, 'why is Earth origin not part of the First Knowledge?' 'Is it not self-evident?' he asked. 'No,' I said. 'Ah!' he said, and closed his eyes very slowly and kept them shut for about a minute, during which time he was apparently subjecting the matter to the most intense scrutiny. 'You're right,' he said at last, opening his eyes. 'It is not self-evident.'--------- Pg 45, Tarnsman



Second Knowledge: The second knowledge generally consists of the High Caste, Those of the Second Knowledge are more aware of things such as the world of Gor being Round. They are More educated, most can Read, and Write. they generally dont Use surnames. they are not superstitious. Such as the Qoute above,with Zosk, it would be suggested Zosk Used His First Name and Not a surname, Zosk was either aware of the Second Knowledge or of the High Caste, Perhaps Both.

People of the Second Knowledge Are Told of, and are Aware of the Possibilities of Other worlds. There perhaps May be doubt, but there is also acceptance.

"He is from the place called Earth, too," said Marcus. Marcus, of high caste, was familiar with various tenets of the second knowledge, such things as the roundness of his world, its movement in space, and the existence of other planets. On the other hand he remained skeptical of many of these tenets as he found them offensive to common sense. He was particularly suspicious of the claim that the human species had an extraterrestrial origin, namely, that it did not originate on his own world, Gor. It was not that he denied there was a place called Earth but he thought it must be somewhere on Gor, perhaps east of the Voltai Range or south of the Tahari. Marcus and I had agreed not to discuss the issue. ---MAGICIANS OF GOR, PG. 295

"And I was taught many other things, too," said she, "when I could read, even to the second knowledge." ---Pg. 291, Raiders

"One that can sail beyond the world’s end," he said. This was an expression, in the first knowledge, for the sea some hundred pasangs west of Cos and Tyros, beyond which the ships of Goreans do not go, or if go, do not return. Samos, of course, knew as well as I the limitations of the first knowledge. he knew, as well as I, that Gor was spheriod. I did not know why men did not traverse the seas far waest of Cos and Tyros. Telima, too, of course, having been educated through the second knowledge in the house of Samos, knew that "world’s end" was, to the educated Gorean, a figurative expression. Yet, in a sense, the Gorean world did end there, as it also, in a sense, ended with the Voltai ranges to the east. They were the borders, on the east and west, of known Gor. To the far south and north, there was, as far as men knew, only the winds and the snows, driven back and forth, across the bleak ice. -------Pg 311 Raiders

Third Knowledge:Those of third Knowledge are Rare,They perhaps Maybe Agents of Priest Kings, They might have intricate Knowledge and Detail of the Priest kings or Sardar Mountains. They would be aware specifically without a doubt of the Powers that be, the Priest Kings, the Kurrii and their coalition of Agents that oppose the Priest Kings, They are Familiar with Ships of Aqcuisitions. Traveling to and From Earth to pick up barbarian slaves. technology is known. they are certainly Not as neieve as both the first and Second Knowledge. Tarl Cabot Clearly throughout the development of the Books transpires from the Second to the Third Knowledge.

The classical knowledge distinctions on Gor tend to follow caste lines, the first knowledge being regarded as appropriate for the lower castes and the second knowledge for the higher castes. That there is a third knowledge, that of Priest-Kings, is also a common belief. The distinctions, however, between knowledge tend to be somewhat imperfect and artificial. For example, the second knowledge, while required of the higher castes and not of the lower castes, is not prohibited to the lower castes. It is not a body of secret or jealously guarded truths, for example. Gorean libraries, like the tables of Kaissa tournaments, tend to be open to men of all castes. "Gor, and the world called Earth," she said, "are prizes in a struggle of titantic forces, the forces of those whom you call Priest-Kings and of those whom you think of as others, or whom we might think of as beasts." kajira of Gor, 3/4 way through,----KAJIRA OF GOR, Pg. 388

I wondered, however, if the Second Knowledge, that of the intellectuals, might not be as carefully tailored to preclude inquiry on their level as the First Knowledge apparently was to preclude inquiry on the level of the Lower Castes. I would guess that there is a Third Knowledge, that reserved to the Priest-Kings. ----Pg 41, Tarns-man

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