Why Lady Dove gets tired at times

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May 2013

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May 27 - Memorial Day

[Frang01]

Some of this "holier than thou" attitude simply pisses me off.

Perhaps we need to demand the utmost perfection in adhering to the TRUE gorean standards. Perhaps make it mandatory that everyone present proof that they have read a minimum of 25 of the JN books and be prepared to take an exam to prove they know the role they wish to play inside and out or else not let them on any gorean RP sim.

That way the 99% of us that apparently have no clue what we are doing (as judged by the elite 1%) can beg for acceptance and tolerance.

And no Dove, this low key rant is not in any way aimed at you.

[Adoveea Rau]

I know none of it is personal at me, we're all just venting and expressing a bit of tired at times .

I call that culture knowledge, people draw from what they know or experienced about gorean roleplay.

[Poisonous Adored]

Some of this "holier than thou" attitude simply pisses me off.

Perhaps we need to demand the utmost perfection in adhering to the TRUE gorean standards. Perhaps make it mandatory that everyone present proof that they have read a minimum of 25 of the JN books and be prepared to take an exam to prove they know the role they wish to play inside and out or else not let them on any gorean RP sim.

That way the 99% of us that apparently have no clue what we are doing (as judged by the elite 1%) can beg for acceptance and tolerance.

And no Dove, this low key rant is not in any way aimed at you.

We can expect, without being elitists, to meet in our role play, people who have a good knowledge of the Gorean culture, traditions, customs and mentality. Reading 25 books is absolutely not necessary.

And I have met more people bringing their earthen mentality in their role play, ruining all Gorean immersion, than people portraying properly a Gorean.

[Bhoamar Landfall]

People neglect to read the bookS. They read whatever little bit they find and automatically become experts.

Then they hear or see that gor is amazing! fighting and titties! and I can br a master! I can be a bastard and no one can say wtf. An amazing place with amazing options. Women have to bow to Me and I can collar all the females I want! ppfftttt.. boskcookies

The lack of finese is in rp is a result of a lack of understanding of what gor is. People did die. Women were enslaved. Slaves were chatel, property. BUT

Warriors stopped to take in the beauty of the lands. Warriors cried and mourned the death of thier comrades.

Women were judgemental and cold and loud and opinionated and standoffish and and and. It is how they are. Deal with it role with it and rp it. Imagine the fun you can have. Thoer job is to piss you off. Your job is to make them piss themselves.

Slaves are jealous and mouthy (at times) and kaniving (sic) and pout and do stupid stuff to get attention and overall were scared to death of FW. Deal with it, rp if as it would be done. Punish them restrict them ignore them but rp it and immerse yourself in it and have fun with it.

And not every person on gor was a literary scholar.  Every once in a while I leave rp with the following " may your toes and nose face the same way when ya walk. Elsewise ya got some real problems" *slapping My leg as I walk away and laughing at My own joke*

 

[Frang01]

We can expect, without being elitists, to meet in our role play, people who have a good knowledge of the Gorean culture, traditions, customs and mentality. Reading 25 books is absolutely not necessary.

Very true but when people make judgemental statements such as:

It's my experience, Daveh, and Im even more generous that some people I know who will tell you that it's even, probably 99% who are unable to portray properly a Gorean, laugh!

That is looking down your nose at the 99% and claming they do not meet your standards or measure up to your expectations. THAT is being a SL gorean elitist.

Too many people bring their Earthen values in their RP with their limited comprehension of books.

Perhaps there are some that you categorize as "limited conprehension" that in reality have a much better comprehension than you give them credit for and perhaps they uderstand the gorean world and like any good actor, takes their character to a different level and depth. Like Daved said:

The thing is for example I don't know the reason why a FW would cuddle a slave but I can't draw a definite conclusion on it and say  "well in the books we don't so it shouldn't happen here." Truth is there is alot of things that isn't covered by the books that we have to contend with and the one for me that sticks out the most is the individual stories we all have that is most definitely not by the books, we can go for "close" but I don't think it could ever be entirely in line with the books.

Now are there role players out there that aren't close to an accurate representation of a gorean character? Absolutely. But 90% or 99% even? Hardly.

Not everyone has the patience to be a teacher, but there are many scattered throughout the gorean world that do take the time to impart some of their experience on others to help them to grow and become better role players. "Pay it forward" - ever hear of that concept?

Think back to the first week you were in SL gor. Intimidated? Unsure of yourself? I'm pretty confident that no one, no matter how much time they have role playing, wants to feel that they are under a constant scrutiny by self-proclaimed expert role players. And I am also pretty sure that most want to be better but when elitist turn their backs and only hurl cynical criticisms rather than constructive advice, then they have no other choice but to teach themselves and struggle to interrupt the gorean books (and we all know what an easy read his material can be).

If you think lack of accuracy can ruin your RP experience, imagine how someone feels knowing they're on a sim and everything they say, everything they do, or how they're dressed, is being critiqued and laughed at in IM's or sim group chat?

steps off his soap box and pulls out his list of sims to not waste time visiting adding one more to the list

[Idunn]

Think back to the first week you were in SL gor. Intimidated? Unsure of yourself? I'm pretty confident that no one, no matter how much time they have role playing, wants to feel that they are under a constant scrutiny by self-proclaimed expert role players. And I am also pretty sure that most want to be better but when elitist turn their backs and only hurl cynical criticisms rather than constructive advice, then they have no other choice but to teach themselves and struggle to interrupt the gorean books (and we all know what an easy read his material can be).

Applaudes the cuddly Kur for his empathy, brilliance and straight talking sense!   

[Byron Greenwood]

"they imagine how all the story and reactions of everyone around them to their character will happen."

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
— Correlli Barnett, The Swordbearers: Studies in Supreme Command in the First World War (1963)

99% of us apparently have no clue what we are doing (as judged by the elite 1%)

"Nosce te ipsum" (Know thyself)
— Plato, cf. Socrates, Dialogues of Plato

Is it too much to ask that one should have read, at least, the book pertaining to their chosen role, and through that understand their role set in the full context of Gor, to ground it and offer a general view of the world about them? For you, perhaps, it would be Marauders, or Beasts, or maybe even Tribesmen. For me, perhaps, it would be Assassin or Tarnsman. We each have our book, pretty much. And, I believe, just one book would be all it would take.

Many of SL-Gor's problems stem from online teachings by the likes of Luthor, or the notion that Gor = BDSM, or, even less than that, that it is simply running about with a bow, shooting and capturing. Instead of Dungeons & Dragons, it's Arseholes & Heroes. When you add this to the inevitable blending of OOC to IC, metagaming, and the like, you end up with a heady brew that has little to do with the Gor that Professor Lange envisioned, save for a few cursory terms and references.

I don't see an elite. I see well-read. And my "well-read" means "I read my book, and I 'get' Gor". Because Norman is simply using the conceptual dramatic motifs of Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter of Mars novels as a platform to present Nietzsche-esque philosophical and sociological dissertations. Once you 'get' that, you can go off and explore Norman's discussions with a character and story of your own by following the rules of Gor. Or you can do so in your real life. Or you can do both. Or you can junk all that and just attach a meter and act like a jerk.

That's when us so-called "elite" get so tired of SL-Gor. When we meet folks that don't have a clue and don't want to learn but insist that they're doing it right. Of course, if that same person is willing to learn, if not eager to do so, that throws the ball back in our court. Do we hamper them, by dismissing them, and become a whole new form of jerk ourselves, or do we sit down with them to help them? But then, of course, having chosen to be the good Samaritan, our student is still more than capable of throwing all that help aside and design for themselves a jerkdom of their own.

There's no easy fix, and no best path to take. Some days you simply logon, get met by something or someone stupid, and decide the best option is to logoff and go the pub, or pop off to your builder's platform. In other words, you just tire of it, the futility of it all, and find something else more fulfilling to do.

[thyri Carver]

Dove I so feel your pain sometimes.  But hey it allows for good building time.  If it wasnt for those kinds of people, I'd never have had the oppertunity to make veils or modesty shirts for FW.  I had an absolute blast making them! 

But yah I feel you on the prudish thing and the guys wondering why my character doesnt want to instantly hump them.  Umm because I'm not playing as a slut in robes?

Then I get on my new Ruby tharlarion and ride off to contemplate a waterfall. 

I so need to toss you those veils and shirts I made Dove, if anything as a thanks for making my ruby's legs move!

[Adoveea Rau]

Breaking some gorean roleplay delusions on people's parts is the hardest thing in the world to do.
I agree oh yeah,  I most vehemently agree there are so many situations never in the books, a million and one grey areas that of course never happened, but could be roleplayed out.
But it's not those creative possibility grey areas most object to, it's the way and why people want to do them that makes the problems and how often what they want sometimes isn't even close to the roleplay of the gorean world.

1) If you read about what I said in Tarn House Answer, about the Ul (a flying thalarion), someone requesting a build of it, you'll see what I mean.
 It's a perfect example, a possible grey area roleplay. 
There is no *description/situation/etc* book reference of someone training/saddling up an Ul and flying it around. Frankly I didn't see why not, made sense to me too, its a species of thalarion, we got people flying big birds. I didn't care if they got their idea on the Avatar Movie and found a UL gorean quote reference from the web.
But.
What i did care about, as a builder and roleplayer in Gor, was making this grey area fit into gorean roleplay, so I told them I would meter it less then tarns, making the speed and maneuvers slower, because UL's wouldn't attack tarns, the tarns would tear it to pieces. This is where my long term knowledge of the books in depth and animals of gor came in.
 And so they didn't want the UL after all, because then taking it into combat would mean they would lose fast against tarns.

2) A head thump on the desk was when the Kur first became *roleplayed* in gor (2008), we had kurii and humans having sex and half breed kurii. 

The kur roleplayers (2008) didn't have a single clue on their parts that kurii were aliens with four sexes and how they were conceived wasn't even close to any human sexual activities.

None of us *book thumpers* were totally loved or appreciated for educating the Kur roleplayers in (2008) of those delusions and concepts they had about their role in gor. 
 
In fact, I still remember a very long argument with a kur roleplayer- telling him how that he was an alien race to the humans, and the Kurii's enemies were the other alien race called the Priest Kings.....he told me over and over i was dead wrong that Kurii were really just human werewolves.....

[Frang01]

I agree oh yeah,  I most vehemently agree there are so many situations never in the books, a million and one grey areas that of course never happened, but could be roleplayed out.

Excellent example of knowing the books and inserting some common sense because not everything was specifically spelled out in the books. Except the incessant rambling about the value of a woman in a collar.

But it's not those creative possibility grey areas most object to, it's the way and why people want to do them that makes the problems and how often what they want sometimes isn't even close to the roleplay of the gorean world.

Agree. It's one thing to know enough to be able to fill the gray areas with something plausable, another to push it to the extreme only to have it called into question by the masses.

2) A head thump on the desk was when the Kur first became *roleplayed* in gor (2008), we had kurii and humans having sex and half breed kurii.

I recently encountered a kur claiming to be a half-breed so that mindset is not yet dead.

None of us *book thumpers* were totally loved or appreciated for educating the Kur roleplayers in (2008) of those delusions and concepts they had about their role in gor. 

Educating is the key word there. Play out the RP if possible and then try to have a rational discussion on any glaring inaccuracies being mindful of a persons pride and ego.
 

In fact, I still remember a very long argument with a kur roleplayer- telling him how that he was an alien race to the humans, and the Kurii's enemies were the other alien race called the Priest Kings.....he told me over and over i was dead wrong that Kurii were really just human werewolves.....

Perhaps the lines are blurred because most kur players are using lycan avatars? Maybe because lycans are in vogue or that there are not enough kurri avatars to choose from?

I took the time and read the books on kurii before stepping into the role. Just as I did for the other roles I've played along the way. I have the basic background information but by no means will I ever claim to be an all knowing, nor will I ever refuse to RP with someone that is truly trying but appears clueless.

I'm more that happy to go into OOC and talk about things and make suggestions for improvement. I also have my ego and pride muzzled for any suggestions others might offer to me as long as it is constructive.

There are a lot of the SL Gor elders I've encountered along the way. Most of whom I have walked away learning something. But there are also a few I've learned to simply avoid for one reason or the other.

So while I might not have as many bruises on my forehead from slamming it on the desk, I do get to give my neck muscles a good workout from shaking my head in utter disbelief.

As the saying goes, "if it ain't fun, ya ain't doing it right".

[Daved Calderwood]

Perhaps the lines are blurred because most kur players are using lycan avatars? Maybe because lycans are in vogue or that there are not enough kurri avatars to choose from?

Not to get off track but I did have a question about this. I thought the Kurri avatars were customizable so you didn't have to look all the same. Was I wrong thinking that?

[Frang01]

Perhaps the lines are blurred because most kur players are using lycan avatars? Maybe because lycans are in vogue or that there are not enough kurri avatars to choose from?

Not to get off track but I did have a question about this. I thought the Kurri avatars were customizable so you didn't have to look all the same. Was I wrong thinking that?

I can only speak for the one I use which is the Aleric Kur avatar. But this one can be modified for height only. Sadly, accurate kur avatars are few and far between.

[Daved Calderwood]

Sounds like a job for Lady Dove!!! (cues the 60's tv show Batman soundtrack)...

[Meri Slade]

While I might agree with the fact that there are many people in Gor that couldn't portray their roles to save their lives, the comment on 99% of us being below you, Poison, was a bit of a bite.

I started the same way many people here did - new to it all. I've done the most stupid stuff, made some really bad errors in my RP and over the years have learned a lot, read a lot and matured a lot in my RP. Have some patience. Some of those people you snub could end up being just as great as you someday.

[Delaynie Barbosa]

Well folks, as I said, each one of those was the final straw on a series of incidents in a day..except the last one, about the garb, that was the final end of 8 different days.

8 days? Is that like Gorean Chanukah?  Jokes aside, for a lot of those reasons I don't roleplay as much anymore either. It's hard to find BTB rolepleyers even on BTB sims.  Too many onlinisms and narrowly-defined expectations of others when one won't be accountable for one's own accuracy.   I'm all for creativity, but not when common sense is thrown aside.







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