Black Caste OOC Assassin List "Whats your Name"

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May 2013

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May 27 - Memorial Day

[Triad Fallen]

So i was standing outside a  city watching  a man dressed in black ( rping as  a Assassin ) trying to get in for a abit of rp.But the city guards pull  out  the OOC  list and says " No your not a Assassin,Your not on the OOC Assassin list,....... cant enter our city you non Killer trying to act like one"

This was going on as rp.This is fucked up the last i looked on that list they don't have mugshots of Assassins with DOB,height , age and all that top secret info.

So clearly this list is been used as  IC " we know who you are " and a clear case of metagaming.
Tag reading i think is the case here this List Should be scraped and let people find out in RP who is who.

Another point is Gorean men would and did use " User Name" i never used Triad  (the name )in RP, Yet when i tell the guards i am Mr Fanny Flaps, they let me in even my name is Mr Fallen on the OOC Assassin list.


This list is  been used in the wrong way.
Its not the first time i seen this list been used in the wrong manner.

A MAJOR HALT to rp, city guards and people standing about seen this going on in rp will think its the norm and people become lazy in rp.They wont rp with the imposter they will use the list "Game Over" rp ended and OOC in the blend.

Also to add the book Assassin of Gor was based around a Black Caste imposter and strolled about Gor happy as Larry.




Secretive out the window and its Monty Python behaviour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc

[Frang01]

I'm sure the intent of this list was just a listing of all that were in the caste, had or was receiving training, and who is "qualified" and willing to take seekers. So would it not be reasonable to consider that list would be used by sims to control who could and could not RP as a BC on their turf? What other purpose would it serve? A BC version of LinkedIn?

Question now is, how do you go about undoing this or does the caste even want to have it undone?

[Raven]

Keep the guards and non caste members out of it.  They should handle everything IC and treat all men in black like Assassins as black is their caste color.  Leave it to the local Assassins to deal with the person at the gates in all black.  Nobody should be looking on a notecard to determine if someone is a legitimate RPer or not.  The list that gets circulated is not perfect and is used internally for caste members to determine who is training and where.  Helps us keep the RP going and stay current with each other.  Like "hey I can't take any more seekers right now but go see Bob in Sulport". 

* Randall Reich sits back and waits for the usual suspects to start bashing the Caste.

[Taog Ra]

I can toss in my .02 here regardling these 'lists'.  Xaz has probably explained the intent behind the list he produces monthly in the very same manner that Raven described just above.

The list is an OOC reference tool.  It should not have any direct impact on roleplay.  Really poor showing for members of any city to meta-game the OOC list into their roleplay in the manner Triad described.

To my knowledge, there are 2 lists.  The list Xaz produces and the list that is maintained as a Google book that Shikhandi created while he was training.  Both OOC reference tools.

The intent of these lists was never to deny anyone roleplay opportunity.  The intent of them was to provide a singular resource where a person can go to see 2 major things:

1.  The avatar/account is ACTIVE.  It's been logged in within the last 30 days and to the best of our knowledge, the individual is actively engaged in black caste roleplay.

2.  The avatar/account trained in a roleplay setting with any of the various, 'older' and more seasoned roleplayers of assassins.

That's it in a nutshell.  The 'lists' are still maintained with that intent in mind.  The major difference between the 2 lists (the one Xaz produces monthly and the Google Book reference) is that the google book is a much more static document, meaning if the avatar/account is "inactive" they are not removed from the document.  They are 'flagged' as being inactive.

Other people who use this list as a reference use it for their own purposes -- personal crusades or witch hunts against "imposters" or what have you.  Sim owners use it as a reference to determine if they want to accept avatars/accounts on their sim portraying the role of an assassin at their own discretion.

Again, that was never the intent of these lists, but most people are painfully aware that this is how they are being utilized.

That's about all I have to add that's constructive to the discussion.

Catch you on the roleplay flip-side at some point.

[Blade Snowdrop]

What city?

[Meri Slade]

I have a serious, non bashing, pure curiosity question.  Please read this in whatever tone would make you go all..."Hey. Good question!"

If the list is made for internal BC reasons of training, etc why is it passed out to the general public? What is the purpose of John Q. Public having that list? Is it like a Killer Phonebook so people know who to contact?

I also have a serious, non bashing statement. You can read this with a touch of cynicism.

Poor roleplay etiquette isn't the fault of the list or anyone that makes said list. It's the fault of the person who thinks roleplay entails opening your inventory to make sure the person at your gate isn't pulling a fast one on you. It's as bad as tag and profile reading, listening through walls, and "knowing" things because Suzy Gossiper told you in IMs.

It -would- partially be the fault of the list maker if it's passed out with the intention of being able to catch those pesky impostors and their silly notions of lying in roleplay. But really, in the end, list or not we're all responsible for our own roleplay etiquette and maturity.

[snowtora]

i have found 2 fake bcs raven can vouch for one i beat shit out of not because he was fake but because he called me boy i smacked him senseless with my sword gave him too raven cause of the mark he had on his head i dont got mod i get curious question them till they either get angry say boy or another terms usually them i smack them around a few being around bc since i started gor i no not too use a ooc list too ic thats just idiocy too me i wasn't given the list IC i was given it OOC and it will stay ooc

[Raven]

If the list is made for internal BC reasons of training, etc why is it passed out to the general public? What is the purpose of John Q. Public having that list? Is it like a Killer Phonebook so people know who to contact?

It's an OOC list.  The problem is that some people are apparently using it ICly.  It is for Assassins to keep up with other Assassins on who's active, who isn't, who is where, bla bla bla.  As far as why people outside the caste are getting it that's a very good question and tells me that there is a breakdown in the chain of communication.  I know I'm not passing it on to anyone but apparently someone is.

[Druhsus]

I never have passed on the list...

But I can see why some might, after maybe getting 100 IMs "is this a BC or not" they rather just hand over a list and not get bombarded by IMs all day/night.

I for one when asked tell them come find me ICly, but that is just me.

I would also get rid of the list, cause one less chore for Xaz to do, BC or not want to know who is who, RP it out, makes it to be a lot more fun ICly, but then we should also stop with the "anyone know this guy" in the chats as well. Overall, in the problems, the list does not rank too high for me.

Dru

[Raven]

I never have passed on the list...

But I can see why some might, after maybe getting 100 IMs "is this a BC or not" they rather just hand over a list and not get bombarded by IMs all day/night.

That makes a lot of sense, but as I said before, what should happen is the Red Caste should do what we do: ICly assume anyone in full black is an Assassin until proven otherwise and handle it all in RP.  If I address someone in full black as Killer and he says "nope I'm a merchant/baker/potter/mercenary" then I deal with them ICly. 

[Triad Fallen]

So anyway .......this list,is it a  good thing or a bad thing?

[Raven]

So anyway .......this list,is it a  good thing or a bad thing?

It depends on how it's used.  That's like asking if a car is a good or bad thing.  It's good when you pick up the children, go grocery shopping and drive safely to work.  It's bad if you get wasted and plow into a throng of people at a Farmer's Market. 

The list is fine so long as it's used responsibly.  The issue is more so with the people using it for IC reasons than the list itself. 

[Frang01]

--so I'm just talking about those head to toe in black, especially hooded or helmed etc.

Good thing I don't wear a helmet or hood. I'd hate to get mistaken for a killer. Wait....

[Raven]

--so I'm just talking about those head to toe in black, especially hooded or helmed etc.

Good thing I don't wear a helmet or hood. I'd hate to get mistaken for a killer. Wait....

LOL.  Who's gong to tell YOU what to wear though? 

[thyri Carver]

I know that the city I currently RP in asked for the list.  I asked 4 assassins for a list.  (actually I think I asked more than that but only 4 got back to me) Because I was told by my sim owner that a list exists of "groups" permitted.  Instead one of the four assassins I asked told me that there were no more "groups" and actually worked to educate me about the list amd gave me a list of names along with dates.  One several days later after asking told me "I dont know where you get these ideas of groups from THERE ARE NO GROUPS".  I'm sure you all can deduce who Mr Grumpypants was.  

In the end I got 3 different lists.  3 lists of names and one list of groups.  Each list was different, with different names on the list.  The group list I took at face value.  I looked over each list and the dates presented on the lists and compared them against each other.  One list had pretty much only active members within one group of assassins.  One list contained pretty much every assassin I'd ever heard about in SL Gor.  And one list seemed quite outdated.  

The sim owners are asking for lists due to the educational efforts of one group.  They want to know "hey who's a legit assassin and who just is some pew monkey in black"  Because they were educated to not know any better.  They were never kept up to date on these lists and generally their lists are no more recent than when they created their BC rules.  The sim owners then put this list in their warriors halls for dispersement to the masses of warriors and gatekeepers.  

I will continue, Randall, to bash my head against the wall in an effort to encourage the caste to reeducate sim owners.  Hell give me the tools, give me the rules, give me the information I need to disperse to my own sim rather than a list and I'll disperse it happily and i'll help educate our warriors and other denizens of the gate.  But I cannot help spread the message of "no lists" and instead spread the message of "good RP" without the information from those who started this list.  I need to be able to go to my sim owner and my sim's warrior head and say "Hey, the BC no longer want to be identified by a list or a display of groups, but instead prefer a RP protocol" with a name or names of authority within the BC to vouch for this.  The power that is weilded at the moment by one group of BC is extremely potent.  And one scribe RPer cannot help work for change without someone of authority saying "Go forth young padewan and tell your sim owner this is how we want things handled now, Tell them the groups and the lists of names is no longer desired, but instead good RP with ALL men in black should be encouraged.  Here, take the lightsaber of the BC Jedi and spread this information to help create a better Gor"

I want this Gor rather than a Gor governed by lists and rules that choke the RP life out of everyone.  I want a Gor of mature RP.  I want a Gor of RPers treating other RPers as mature individuals.  I want a Gor free of lists.