Admins and Mods, is a new approach due?

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June 2013

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Jun 21 - Summer Solstice

[Drevan Darkbyrd]

I have been thinking about this for a while Sim after Sim I see mods and Admins burning out from the sheer amount of BS they must handle and then try to RP.

I think it might be time to stop choosing the mods and admins from among the Friends of sim owners and the RPers and instead HIRE non RPers to take these Roles, yes they will need a knowledge of RP and preferrably a knowledge of Gorean RP but the last can be taught. Much like SL Clubs due we should hire outside of Gor people to come in and handle the BS for us as they are being paid (yes with lindens) to do so they will cope better we could grab those who are no longer active roleplayers or even from other Genres such as Star Wars or Star Trek as an example. And leave the IC to us who wish to Roleplay while yes my idea is rough and would need some fine tuning but I think with effort this could actually Help all of those poor Admins and Mods who are drowning when they are supposed to be having fun

[Meredith Topaz]

I think people just need to be educated about what moderation is really for.  we are not here to settle ooc disputes..hell we don't even care to hear about so and so calling so and so a slut in ims...lol.  You don't like someone?  Mute them.  Once you start acting as a counselor you will have no peace.  Insteads mods should be there to respond when someone complains about an infraction of the sim rules. 

We have been blessed in Hochburg that we rarely have mod calls...and the ones we do are usually about raids.  And even those 90% are dealt with in an adult manner and then it is game on...if the game was even interrupted in the first place.

[Kaijah Thorne]

I have been thinking about this for a while Sim after Sim I see mods and Admins burning out from the sheer amount of BS they must handle and then try to RP.

I think it might be time to stop choosing the mods and admins from among the Friends of sim owners and the RPers and instead HIRE non RPers to take these Roles, yes they will need a knowledge of RP and preferrably a knowledge of Gorean RP but the last can be taught. Much like SL Clubs due we should hire outside of Gor people to come in and handle the BS for us as they are being paid (yes with lindens) to do so they will cope better we could grab those who are no longer active roleplayers or even from other Genres such as Star Wars or Star Trek as an example. And leave the IC to us who wish to Roleplay while yes my idea is rough and would need some fine tuning but I think with effort this could actually Help all of those poor Admins and Mods who are drowning when they are supposed to be having fun

T. and I have dealt with this for quite a number of years on the sims we've owned and we've both had our fair share of burnout too.  What we both have decided is that in the future we would like to put the responsibility of Moderation back where it belongs and that is in the very hands of the people who are calling for a Moderator in the first place.  If a situation gets so bad that we have to be called in, time and time again experience has shown us that it has already reached a point where neither side of the argument is willing to compromise so the call for a Moderator or sim admin to step in and straighten things out is already a wasted effort.

We are all for seeing individuals taking responsibility for their actions and the consequences of them, both IC and OOC.  We are not talking about blurring the lines here, we are simply suggesting that each roleplayer chooses the IC actions of their character, and in that respect they are OOC responsible to be mature enough to roleplay whatever consequences may result from that roleplay and if they need to call in a Moderator to 'invalidate' the roleplay so they can avoid those consequences, we'd rather not be the ones called.

Some form of pro-active Moderation needs to be created rather than the more traditional reactive method, and putting the responsibility on each individual to moderate their own roleplay put the responsibility exactly where it belongs.

[Dyce Boucher]

I've often thought long and hard about all of these things, being that I've owned several sims.

I've come to the point that any OOC issues aren't my issues unless it's being done in public chat, which is handled simply with a firm approach of

"Post Disruptive OOC in public chat and get Ejected from the sim. Repeat this action too many times and get banned at moderator/owner's discretion for an undetermined amount of days."

Anything in IM, butt-hurt and other crap like that... I tell them to mute whoever's pissing them off or file an abuse report. I also inform people that I'm not there to babysit.

Now... on to IC issues...

I've decided that wanting to run a grand macrocosm of roleplay is just too much headache. Like being a leader of a city. The approach to our up and coming project that we'll be disclosing when it gets closer to completion will go in a completely different direction when it comes to roleplay structure. There will be no city-wide hierarchy, to put it simple.

Many people may disagree with this, but I believe that we should return to the roots of our Gorean experiences. Instead of sitting and whining about things constantly, just go duel over it if it's a man or, if the opposite gender, slap the woman down and back into place.

I remember a time (long before SL) in HTML chat rooms, GOR@SOI, JAG@SOI, and other venues that any conflict was handled with an honor spar or, if grave enough, with a duel to the death (aka death spar). As much as people complained about when someone lost or when someone of supposedly high character lost to someone with supposedly low and questionable character, it got the job done and it was considerably less complaints than we have these days with our "civilized discussions".

There weren't hours and hours and hours of people trying to prove a point. They simply went, fought, got it over with and that was that. The hours of bitching and complaining came after by the peanut gallery of those who were pissed that their favored fighter lost, which is common in ANY competition, real or fictional.

Basically, I'm going to repeat here a favorite line of mine from the novels:

"Before the sword there is only a world of what is and what is not - rather than a world of what should be and what should not be."

So, with that in mind...

On a personal level, I've decided that my form of moderation is that I'm just going to hack down whoever tries to flop their cock out on the table and measure it.

Even if it's a bunch of OOC cock-flopping, I'm going to cut them down and then eject/ban them for disrupting my daily peace.

If I get cut down instead, I'm going to lick my wounds, chalk it up to a lesson learned and go about my merry way.

If a woman's causing me grief, however, I'm not going to bother with city laws and all that. I'm just going to wrangle her down and rape her, maybe collar her, sell her, keep her, or whatever else I'm in the mood for at that point in time. Maybe strip her, tie her up and leave her on the doorstep of one of her enemies.

I'm just at the point in my Gorean "life" that I am tired of the endless debates and debacles and just prefer to go walk up to someone and get it over with.

[Syndel Daviau]

Translating what Dyce's saying: our next sim won't have a Moderation team. All IC disputes will be dealt absolutely IC. The model for that is on wait-and-see basis.

[Poisonous Adored]

Sorry Syndel, but I disagree with such system. Many situations cannot be dealt IC. absolutely not.

For example, Im tired to deal IC with a woman who shows up in sim (Southern location), with loose hair, sheer veil and cleavage. I want that a mod intervene and tell her that she is portraying a FW in a very unrealistic way, that she is breaking people's immersion, that the sim is not a CARp one. I have already dealt IC in such conditions, 99,99% of times, the woman acted as this by ignorance, or because she spent a lot of SL$ in a lovely skin and great hair and was not willing to assume the consequences. You will have wasted your time in dealing IC.

I dont want to deal IC with people acting in an unrealistic Gorean way. I ruined once a character in such RP, now, yes, I am no more willing to deal IC such situations. Because it imply that my character will be involved as well in this crap RP. I want a moderation team which will care for the immersion of people who joined the sim, for an authentic Gorean role play.

OOC disputes may be ignored by moderators until a certain point. When a OOC conflict between two people grows until it starts to involve many others, moderators are better, so, to intervene and play the mediators if necessary.

[Carter Ebbage]

Simply go back to the term and definition of what a Moderation is...

somebody who comes to a decision when a SIM rule is broken
 or
an IC situation develops that requires an arbitrator to take a neutral and informed position to make a decision

Now the rest of the OOC bullshit.. that's another matter and something which should be dealt with by the owner or nominated others in a situation to deal with the drama.

When you confuse the role of a Moderator with a Sim Owner, Relationship Counsellor, Psychotherapist, Life Coach etc etc.. thats when you get a problem and stray from the intent, purpose and role of the RP Moderator.

So if there is to be a new approach.. think of new titles with very clear terms of reference, for example

RP Moderator - that is their only remit..
Sim Administrator - to deal with the OOC BS and the power to eject and ban.

That will clarify and stop any confusion over roles such as IC Administrator or Ubar and hopefully clarify to the idiots who cannot distinguish between a kajira, baker, scribe and somebody who can eject your arse for being a prick.

[Kaylin Pixelmaid]

Most of all the moderations that are done in Thentis are done during raids. But even then it is discussed with the Moderator and party that was/called  for the moderation. We are very lucky. It's nice to see a sim that does such.


But sometimes things do get out of hand, and those in power tend to go over board with their rights to do such. Then that is where a problem lays. When things are taken Icly to oocly, then something needs to be looked into. I have gone to several SIMS where mods have done such. Where things that happened icly were taken out on players, due to ooc feelings. In all honesty it's not right nor is it fair.

But if I opened a  Sim I would have to admit I would bring in people that know what they are doing when it comes to the act of modding a sim. I wouldn't want anyone whom is not seasoned to do so. But then there are some that have no clue how to do it.. but come in and do the best modding. It all just depends on what your comfortable with.

[Dyce Boucher]

For example, Im tired to deal IC with a woman who shows up in sim (Southern location), with loose hair, sheer veil and cleavage.

Smack them down, collar them, sell them to the next sim. Like I said in my post.

I want that a mod intervene and tell her that she is portraying a FW in a very unrealistic way, that she is breaking people's immersion, that the sim is not a CARp one.

What is CARp?

I have already dealt IC in such conditions, 99,99% of times, the woman acted as this by ignorance, or because she spent a lot of SL$ in a lovely skin and great hair and was not willing to assume the consequences. You will have wasted your time in dealing IC.

Not willing to assume the consequences? Ban.

I dont want to deal IC with people acting in an unrealistic Gorean way.

Laziness to ensure the purity of the world around you.

I ruined once a character in such RP, now, yes, I am no more willing to deal IC such situations. Because it imply that my character will be involved as well in this crap RP. I want a moderation team which will care for the immersion of people who joined the sim, for an authentic Gorean role play.

Again, laziness. Wanting someone else to handle a problem that's right in front of you that you can just as easily take care of.

OOC disputes may be ignored by moderators until a certain point. When a OOC conflict between two people grows until it starts to involve many others, moderators are better, so, to intervene and play the mediators if necessary.

Negatory. I'll NOT get involved with people's IM's, no matter how many they involve. Simply because my involvement in a third-party's IM's is against the LL TOS and I don't want to receive an abuse report by offended individuals.

If they flap their gums in OOC in public, however, cut'em down. And then summon a sim owner or designated individual to Eject/Ban the individual. Done. No need for going through logs or whatever.

[Syndel Daviau]

Sasi,
All IC things are absolutely viable to be dealt with completely IC if the roleplayers are mature. And if they aren't, then they don't belong in a mature environment and should be removed. That's how I see it and that's my future approach.

Moderators are people and shouldn't be summoned to settle stupid things. It's roleplay, not kindergarten. And, perhaps if people would nitpick less and make roleplay out of flaws more, there would be more game. Sometimes that super colorful guy that looks like a clown and you think is in the 'wrong sim' is just an Entertainer!  That dude in black isn't an Assassin, take a closer look and you'll find out his clothes are actually grey but are dirty from the road. Maybe that free woman is in disarray because she was assaulted! Many times a woman with a loose hair WANTS to be collared. Many times a woman with a sheer veils WANTS to be insulted. Maybe she knows the books and that's just her end goal, you know? Happened a lot in Ar because I would throw them the dress code notecard and they would wink and say "oh I read it" - so, perhaps, just go with the flow and assume people ain't dumb and needing to be patronized or educated for a change. And, if indeed, they aren't there to play nice, believe me, they will teleport out on their own and rid your sim of their ill presence and, at most, you'll get to roleplay that  you had some hallucination after a bad meal and a laughter in the end of the day.

What I advise any sim owner is to layout very clearly in 3 notecards: simple rules (not a full book), dress code for their sim and basic layout of locations including what to expect of them (if women cannot enter the tavern SAY SO! at the landing already) and game on. 

[Dyce Boucher]

Basically, I'm going to break it down, as a sim owner, into the situations that require moderation.

1.) Private OOC

2.) Public OOC

3.) IC Confusion

4.) Combat

------------------------------------------------------------

Now the response to each:

1.) Private OOC - Do nothing. If they aren't adult enough to hit the mute button, then you don't want them around.

2.) Public OOC - Eject/Ban the offending individual and tell them to handle their problems in IM's.

3.) IC Confusion - Fight it out. Between two women or non-combatants? Arm wrestle. And then whoever loses, walk away and leave it alone.

4.) Combat - Kill the offender. If accused of OOC cheating, like speed enhancers, blah blah... easy: Eject both accuser and accused from battle. That'll shut everyone up.

--------------------

There. Easy. Handle each of those situations EXACTLY like that and nobody will bother you again.

[Crone Dryke]

A very long time ago I used to co-administrate a sim, good ol' Saphronicus (the old one, not any of the newer)
I administered it for over a full year and i never at any point felt burnt out or even sick of modding.

And i believe I know the reason why I never got tired of it, I enjoyed moderating.
I enjoyed helping my fellow roleplayers out, sorting their differences and helping them come to an understanding.
If you find moderation to be annoying or a hassle for you to deal with, then you shouldn't be doing it, It will eventually become too much for you as it will only build to being more and more of a problem for you to deal with.

As I found it rewarding and sometimes even fun to moderate, I could do it all day, every day, for a whole year and more, the RP I was contributing to unfold and get to work smoothly was enough of a reward for me, I felt more as if I was a part of the sim, and all the ongoing roleplay on it.

But of course you will run in to BS every now and then; people who have broken the rules, and then argue over it, or people who refuse to continue RP because they don't want too, or people who tp out/tp people in, for all of them i had a simple solution, they were the easy people to deal with for me.
If you break a sim rule and it states it's a bannable offense, you will be banned, no questions asked, no "i didn't read the rules".
If you unknowingly broke a rule which isn't a bannable offense, I would ask all members of the roleplay going on if they had a problem with it, if they didn't let it slide, no one has a problem with it, if someone wasn't ok with it, RP is invalid, and I ask the person who broke the rule to TP out of the sim and their welcome to come back and try again.

When it comes to people not knowing Gor properly, I take it easy on them, because i don't expect everyone to have read the books to understand all the customs of all the places around Gor, I'd kindly inform them in IM's about the problem, and I'd expect them do as I informed them/change what needed to be changed. There is no "what if" or "but", if you cant roleplay gorean in Gor, then your not welcome. (unless they actually intended to have a cleavage or whatever and to get RP from it)


When it comes to roleplaying, I must admit, it came as a 2nd priority for me, I put the sim and the people in it before myself. That doesn't mean I never had time to roleplay or have fun myself tho, I have plenty of good memories of roleplay from saphronicus, I even had more fun there while i was moderating then I ever had after that in any other roleplay sim.
I saw the bigger picture, all the different kind of roleplays going on, i kept check on them to make sure rules were being followed, and that everyone was happy. I made tons of long term friends, people appreciated me being there and moderating for them whenever it was needed, without me getting angry or stopping RP when it wasn't needed.

I also believe Carter appreciated it when i joined the ranks of the Admins/Mods of saph and lifted weight of his shoulders by moderating. As from my understanding Carter never enjoyed having to moderate.

Yet to this day, old friends still ask me why I moderated as much as I did, and ask me if i actually had any fun and did any roleplay, as they almost always saw me standing on the walls or on a rooftop with the OOC tag on, deep into IMs, moderating RP across the sim.
I gladly tell them that it was the time of my (second) life, Ever since Saphronicus shut down, Second Life has never been the same for me. To be honest, I miss having 10 IMs when i log in and having people who depend on me to help them out and to spend several hours per day looking in to other peoples roleplay and helping them the best I can.

And as far as paying people to moderate for you, thats about the worst thing you can possibly do.
They will most possibly be in it for the money and not to actually contribute to the sim.
(unless you want to pay me, cus then its a good idea)

So my tip to all of you:

• If you don't enjoy moderating then you shouldn't do it.
• If you let the stupid people get to you, and you get angry. You're not suited to be a moderator.
• Always try to make the roleplayers happy, if they broke a small rule by accident, who cares if no one complained?
• Arguing never comes to any solutions
• If 2 people have an OOC argument, it's not your problem as long as it doesn't affect anything IC
• Don't be afraid to rule against the members of your own sim

[Wanita Slade]

the above post 

Ahhh Crone, a rare find. One of many whom I have had the previlege to know.

[thyri Carver]

I think that this thread shows a little on what we expect out of our moderators.  What we expect and what the moderator's purpose is are two completely different things.

1.  The people want someone to invalidate RP.  Invalidate a person, invalidate an action, educate on dress code or in combat or other means by which to invalidate things.  Believe it or not, the purpose of the moderator is to preserve RP.  

2.  The sim owners want someone who is an extension of themselves, someone who's available when the sim owner is not around so that OOC nonsense can be brought to a standstill .  Unfortunately people dont listen to moderators as if they're a sim owner.  Moderators are seen as the cronies of the sim owner.  The muscle, the hired help.  Usually met with much disdain.

3.  Moderators are usually looked down on when people will not behave themselves and then are said that we "talk down" to people.  Generally we dont "talk down" to people unless the situation just seems very childish.  Because when I mod, I'm going through two sets of hastily put together chat logs, meter timers and possibly comparing these actions against the sim rules.  So my screen is generally covered by notecards when i'm modding.  

In the end though, I cannot moderate on a quality of RP issue.  I cannot force people to give quality good RP.  I can say "hey Bobby, you godmodded here so I'm going to have to invalidate this portion of the RP" so I'm going through the RP of two people and playing editor to their story.  I dont like having to be heavy handed with this because ultimately this is their story.  I prefer to offer compromise and alternatives rather than being heavy handed with the editing eraser of doom or to full out call an invalid.  

In combat moderation, when things get to the point where a mod is called, the combat is over.  And the whining begins.  Someone is downed "but bobby cheated!  there's no way I could be downed!"  or "Bobby shot me through the wall, there's no way I could be downed"  At this point I have a choice.  Force the RP to continue which almost never works.  Forcing people to continue the RP after they're disgruntled never leads to good RP.  Or I can invalidate things.  Something I've hated to do for a long time.  There are very few occasions I can say "Ok bobby, billy and joe... you're still up since you were shot through an alpha layer, and Scotty, Jason and Hank, you're all down because you shot through a wall and wouldnt have been back up"  I will not pick and choose who is up and who is down because the battle can change so much.  I will usually instead call for a compromise.  I'll call for a do over in an hour or the next day and just send people back to their corners.Is that correct in terms of moderation or is it perfect?  Certainly not.  And frankly its easier for me to just send those who are complaining home because they obviously dont want to be a part of the RP in the first place.  

Its a really fine line you're walking as a moderator.  If I'm moderating, I cant have ANY part in the combat.  I cannot moderate if I'm on the field of battle or anywhere near it.  If I'm moderating I cannot and WILL not moderate anything that I have a personal stake in.  I also take things a little farther and will not moderate a situation involving someone I have an OOC dispute with or if they're my character's owner or companion or family member.  As much as I'd love to, I cant.  I know I'm capable of seperating things, but I will not moderate these cases because of how things could appear to those being moderated.  

[Badeddy resident]

Really interesting and instructing reading here.

To mod is new to me, a few months at the most so I'm here reading and taking notes. I don't do bad but I can learn from others thats for sure. So please, keep on