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Author Topic: Unowned Slaves.  (Read 3165 times)
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Irish Breen
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« 04. May 2017, 23:08:26 »
I looked and searched and I am unable to find, quotes ob being a unowned slave. I KNOW there is no such thing.  I know that slaves fresh of the boat ( lets call them FOB's ). Are unowned, however they are owned, first by the captors and then by the slavers/trainers, and city/state, whatever. 
Also, By the book wise aka BTB'ly are there quotes on a unowned slave wandering cities? Or using it as a excuse? 
 I could only find  a quote, that doesnt really help much. but touches on the subject half assedly.

"The slave cannot free herself. She can be freed only by an owner. The condition of slavery does not require the collar, or the brand, or an anklet, bracelet or ring, or any such overt sign of bondage.
 Such things, as lovely and symbolic as they are, as profoundly meaningful as they are, and as useful as they are for marking properties, identifying masters, and such, are not necessary to slavery.
They are, in effect, though their affixing can legally effect embondment, ultimately, in themselves, tokens of bondage, and are not to be confused with the reality itself.
The uncollared slave is not then a free woman but only a slave who is not then in a collar. Similarly a slave is still a slave even if her brand could be made to magically disappear or, if she has been made a slave in some other way, if she has not yet been branded.
 Indeed, some masters, somewhat foolishly, I think, dally in the branding of their slaves. Indeed, some, perhaps the most foolish, do not brand them at all.
Such girls, however, when they come into the keeping of new masters, usually discover that that oversight is promptly rectified. 
“The slave who lies about her slavery,” I said, “is not thereby the less a slave. It is only that she is then a lying slave.”Renegades of Gor"

However I am looking for quotes to show this. Not just  because I have read a book, or 12.. or  so... and I understand the implicit meaning. I just needs facts. Cold hard facts.
Thank ya  so much!
I need to up date my pro. pic. for here. 0-o
Irish
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Kail Lefevre
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« 04. May 2017, 23:21:58 »
Since I just touched on this subject on the last book long post I just wrote, I thought I would copy the short selection from my post that fit this topic and paste it here as a quote from my thread.

Quote
Q: What is a slave girl?
A: A girl who is owned.

There are a number of slaves that have complained about sims with rules that send a slave coming to the gates right to the kennel. They give fairly good reasons for why it shouldn't be. However, here is the thing.... What is a slave girl? It is a girl that is owned. If you're at the gate and not owned, you're not a slave. If you are not a slave then there is only one other thing you can be, a free woman dressed less then modestly at the gate. When you do that you are breaking modestly laws of many of those cities and in would in that case be arrested and more then likely sent to the public slave house by the courts. In the end you're in the slave house. So dislike it or not, entering the city unowned and you ending up in the kennel is the correct action. If slave girls understood this litany better they might find other ways of getting into a city that would allow them to get what they really want. Hey, why not come in dressed like a free woman, npc a guard. Get in and role play for a day or two. Find the man or woman you want to own you and then submit!
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Irish Breen
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« 05. May 2017, 02:38:03 »
 Thank you!  I had read that and really understood it well.
  The stories in the books all inferred that a slave is a slave is a slave. That all salves are owned  and in the process of being sold, or getting trained and in service to their city/state/village. In some way.

Even coin girls were not a 'personal' owned slave, but  one that belonged to the slave pens or 'houses" like a bolt of cloth is owned by the one that turns it into a dress. Then gets sold.

Many places had slaves that were just that , house keeping slaves. Not all slaves were pampered and not all slaves were  love slaves.  Slaves were treated as such.  The were a owned commodity.  Yours but not.

I know all this, we all know this.  But I am looking for quotes to support it.

 A friend asked me about it. He said that he had seen a quote  somewhere  saying Unowned slaves, there are no unowned slaves..

 I just cant reference it. it is making me nuts. Smiley
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Nakshydil
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« 05. May 2017, 10:46:49 »
There is nothing in the books speaking of -unowned- slaves. It's true. But if the collar and the brand tend to make a slave, it is very possible for a slave to have no owner. The books speak of "unclaimed slave". The concept is simple... It may be a woman who has been enslaved, but not claimed by any man as his property. She will go to the first one who will want her. She has, strictly speaking, no owner. It may also be a man who will just abandon her, for any man who will put his collar on her... That can be a woman declaring she is a slave. This mere declaration, in presence of witness, will make her officially a slave. But with no owner yet, not the state, not a slaver, none. Until any free or house claims her.

Some quotes:

"Various things might then happen. He might have you sign a slave document, in the presence of witnesses. As soon as your signature is on the document, of course, you are a slave. On the other hand, he might proceed even more simply. He might merely have you utter a formula of enslavement, though, again, doubtless in the presence of witnesses, who might sign a paper certifying their witnessing of your declaration. Let us suppose you utter such a formula. The simplest is perhaps, 'I am a slave.' You are then a slave. He will perhaps then say, 'You are my slave.' This claims you. You are then his slave. This is sufficient in the context for in that context you have been momentarily an unclaimed slave, who may be claimed by the first free person who chooses to do so. Too, in this case, them are, of course, no counterclaims to be adjudicated. He is there first, so to speak. His claim is fully warranted, unchallengeable and legally indisputable.
Mercenaries

Whereas cities have laws, and most castes have caste codes, there is only one law which is generally respected, and held in common, amongst Gorean municipalities, and that is Merchant Law, largely established and codified at the great Sardar Fairs. According to Merchant law an unclaimed slave, one legally subject to claimancy, may be claimed, and then is the property of the claimant.
Smugglers of Gor

The slave herself dared not speak.
Eito released his grip on the girl’s hair. “Stand up, stand straight, worthless creature,” he said. “Put your hands behind your head. Bend backwards!”
Yes, I thought, slave curves. How beautiful are women!
“She is not pay, noble one,” said Eito. “She is not even a gift. But I will unclaim her in your presence.”
“Do not do so,” said the magician.
“Then,” said Eito, “we will take her back to the village, cut her throat, and leave her for the feeding of jards.”
“Unclaim her,” said the magician.
“You are unclaimed, slave,” said Eito. He then smiled, bowed, and took his leave.
Eito, I thought, was a clever fellow. It was no wonder that he, though of the peasants, had a string of coins.
The girl looked at us, frightened.
“Get on your knees,” I told her.
Swiftly she went to her knees, before us.
I did not want her to bolt away, either in foolishness, or terror.
Kneeling is not merely a posture of submission; it is also a posture in which the slave realizes she is relatively helpless.
It is interesting, how the same position, say, kneeling, can be experienced. It might be experienced as unspeakably humiliating and degrading to a free woman, even debasing, but, to a slave, it is experienced as welcome, warm, fulfilling, desirable, and appropriate. It is a lovely expression of the servitude for which she has longed and in which she revels. It is a lovely expression of her submission to her master, her surrender, wholly, as a female, to him. She is no longer hers, but is now his. On her knees, submitted, is where she is and wants to be. She wants to love and serve, wholly and selflessly. She does not want to be her master’s equal. She wants to be her master’s slave. Even free women understand this, for they, too, are women.
“You are now an unclaimed slave,” I told her.
“Yes, Master,” she whispered, frightened.
“As a rightless slave,” I said, “you may be claimed by any free person.”
“Yes, Master,” she said.
“And you will then belong, wholly, to that person,” I said.
Rebels of Gor


Sometimes women are enslaved, but not claimed. They must then wait, in trepidation, perhaps being inspected and appraised, to see who will claim them. They are free, of course, as they are unclaimed, to beg to be claimed by a given male. Similarly even an owned slave who is up for sale may utter the “Buy me, Master” solicitation. Indeed, the “Buy me, Master” solicitation is not unoften required of girls exhibited in selling lines, on slave shelves, in exposition cells and cages, and such.
“No one will want me, Master,” said the girl. “I am only a work slave, and not even a good work slave. That is why my master used me in the wager. I am the smallest and weakest in my kennel.”
Rebels of Gor
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Akane Nacht
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« 05. May 2017, 12:03:54 »
The books speak of "unclaimed slave".

Interesting. Makes me think of unclaimed baggage in an airport.  Grin
Presumably in the books they all get claimed eventually, even if just for sleen-feed?
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Nakshydil
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« 05. May 2017, 12:43:27 »
The books speak of "unclaimed slave".

Interesting. Makes me think of unclaimed baggage in an airport.  Grin
Presumably in the books they all get claimed eventually, even if just for sleen-feed?


Laugh, the comparison is not bad, although, usually, the baggage has an owner who wants to get it back (save if there is a bomb inside). That would be rather like abandoning your German Shepherd behind you when you move (those heartless people...). The dog is still a German Shepherd, it doesn't become a wild wolf because it has no longer an owner. And until someone adopt it, it's a poor unclaimed dog.

And I have no example of slave who is not claimed or for whom it is made clear that she will never be claimed, indeed...  Eh, a free slave, after all...!
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Kail Lefevre
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« 05. May 2017, 17:28:54 »
 house keeping slaves, tavern slaves, coin girls, etc may not have a person that owns them, but they are commonly a listed asset some where. A tavern slave for example is owned in much the same way as the tavern's table is. It is an asset to the tavern and is owned by extension by the tavern owner. He doesn't take the table home and eat off it, he doesn't sleep on it. But he owns it, by owning the business that claims that asset. The same would be true for these slaves that are the tavern girls, the coin girls, and so on. Even the stock owned by slavers for sale are assets of his business. Again he may or may not entertain him self with them, and they would not be his personal girls, but they are owned.

On the subject of unclaimed girls..

If a woman kneels in the woods and no one is around to see it, is she still an unclaimed girl? HA

I guess what I mean is, even in the quotes provided the women who are now seen as unclaimed girls are still free to the point that if no one bares witness to their disgrace they can likely live on as free women. Earth girls are seen as all unclaimed slaves. However for my self I see these women, even the barbarians like the egg. You don't count your chickens until they hatch. Until the egg hatches it isn't a chicken, on like note an unclaimed slave is to me not a real slave until claimed. Be that claiming mean you are held as a personal slave or an asset
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« 06. May 2017, 00:19:30 »
Tavern slaves, house slaves, coin girls are still owned by a person. The owner of the tavern, the head of the house, etc. That she is an asset doesn't matter much. In Dancer of Gor, Doreen knows perfectly that Hendow, the tavern owner is her master and that she is owned by him. She relates to him as being his slave. Many slave girls, said the books, are sometimes never put in presence of their owner, when this one is wealthy and own so many of them. But they still know who is their master, who owns them. They are assets, property and if someone ask them who is their master, they will give a name.

As for the unclaimed slaves, I gave the quotes supporting the fact that a slave can effectively be one, just, not having a owner. If a FW, claims in her privacy that she is a slave, so, she is. And she is still a real slave. In Gor, just saying "I am a slave" ("la kajira" in Gorean) is a very serious matter that makes a woman definitely one, and this, legally once it's publicly known. There is no possible return. In absence of witnesses, a woman could effectively live as a FW, indeed. But if a free person had witnessed her claim, she would be considered and treated as a slave, one yet unclaimed, and who would become the property of the first man putting a collar on her.
As for barbarians, Gorean consider they are, in their world, slave stock. But those brought to Gor are merchandise and so, already owned, not unclaimed and will be set for sale.

But just keep in mind, that in the books, a woman is a real and legal slave, once she claimed being one, even if no man claimed her as his property. She loses all her rights and prerogatives as a free person.

The concept of an unclaimed slave doesn't appear in the first books, but once it's a bit more developed, it becomes very clear.
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Irish Breen
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« 08. May 2017, 18:15:41 »
Thank you all for your help, It did make things a bit clearer for me.  The slave is not free, and she can be claimed by anyone, as they want too. I hope this slave girl, doesnt have a fit and go yelling about. "HELP ME". Gah. Silly slaves. Laughs. If your going to be a unowned slave, then play it right. <3

[If a woman kneels in the woods and no one is around to see it, is she still an unclaimed girl? HA]

No, perhaps she is a panther woman ( you did say woman kneeling..) and dropped something. But then we get into semantics. Is she a unowned slave. Might be, she could have escaped into the woods,or she might be a FW as well.

AGAIN, semantics. Panther women are not seen as slaves. Thus they are free, and should be addressed like a free woman.

Lets add to the confusion, if the panther woman was a slave, then in this case , she would still be a slave, a unowned slave.

0-o
My head hurts now.
Irish
« Last Edit: 08. May 2017, 18:18:32 by Irish Breen » Logged

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Caranda Schreiner
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« 15. May 2017, 07:20:39 »
In the books, the essence of slavery in ownership: that is, you are a slave because you are owned by someone else.  That someone can be a person or a legal entity that is not a person but which can own property, like a city.  So "unowned slave" doesn't really make sense from a Gorean point of view.

There is a very limited exception to this: namely, a free woman who submits voluntarily submits herself into slavery.  If she does this then Gorean law works like this:

- if she submits herself to a specific Free person then that Free person has the choice of accepting her as his/her property or rejecting her.  In some Gorean cities the rejection means that she remains Free, in others she is an unowned slave awaiting claiming;

- if she submits herself while she is being held as a captive then she automatically becomes the property of her captor;

- otherwise, she is (very) temporarily a slave without an owner and can be claimed by the first Free person who cares to do so.  In the books this is invariably a very short term condition because slaves have value and even if someone didn't want to own her he could claim her and sell her easily at a market and pocket the coins.

However in SL where slaves greatly outnumber Free persons interested in acquiring new slaves its very possible for someone to submit themselves into slavery but stay unclaimed and unowned because nobody wants them as their slave.

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It is regarded as right to enslave a natural slave
Caranda Schreiner
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« 15. May 2017, 07:27:17 »
No, perhaps she is a panther woman ( you did say woman kneeling..) and dropped something. But then we get into semantics. Is she a unowned slave. Might be, she could have escaped into the woods,or she might be a FW as well.

AGAIN, semantics. Panther women are not seen as slaves. Thus they are free, and should be addressed like a free woman.

Lets add to the confusion, if the panther woman was a slave, then in this case , she would still be a slave, a unowned slave.

Panther girls have an ambiguous status on Gor.  Goreans are well aware that panther girls are usually either Free women who have fled to the forests because they don't like their lives in the cities (e.g. to escape an unwanted companionship) or slaves who have not only made a successful escape to the forest but have been taken in by a band as a panther girl and not as a band slave.

Notwithstanding that many panther girls are thus legally slaves, perhaps because they act as Free persons (and also perhaps because there is no easy way to tell if a particular panther girl is an ex-FW or an ex-slave), they are generally treated as if they were Free on Gor, regardless of their history.  So you see them being addressed as Free persons by other Free persons and you see slaves treating them as Free - kneeling, obeying, addressing them as Mistress etc.

To an extent this is a moot point because panther girls being outlaws are subject to capture and enslavement by anyone who can get their hands on them but in the meantime they are treated as Free persons.

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Nakshydil
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« 16. May 2017, 03:39:13 »
In the books, the essence of slavery in ownership: that is, you are a slave because you are owned by someone else.  That someone can be a person or a legal entity that is not a person but which can own property, like a city.  So "unowned slave" doesn't really make sense from a Gorean point of view.

There is a very limited exception to this: namely, a free woman who submits voluntarily submits herself into slavery.  If she does this then Gorean law works like this:

- if she submits herself to a specific Free person then that Free person has the choice of accepting her as his/her property or rejecting her.  In some Gorean cities the rejection means that she remains Free, in others she is an unowned slave awaiting claiming;

- if she submits herself while she is being held as a captive then she automatically becomes the property of her captor;

- otherwise, she is (very) temporarily a slave without an owner and can be claimed by the first Free person who cares to do so.  In the books this is invariably a very short term condition because slaves have value and even if someone didn't want to own her he could claim her and sell her easily at a market and pocket the coins.

However in SL where slaves greatly outnumber Free persons interested in acquiring new slaves its very possible for someone to submit themselves into slavery but stay unclaimed and unowned because nobody wants them as their slave.


The essence of slavery is not just an official status, though, else, the principle of "natural slave" would not exist. And the "unclaimed" status is of course, a temporary one, since it shouldn't take long for a slave to be quickly claimed by any free. Beinf "unclaimed" doesm't mean that the slave is free to do whatver she wants, nor to choose or refuse a master.
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