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Author Topic: High Slaves - BTB  (Read 1164 times)
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ashellia resident
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« 30. July 2018, 21:51:06 »
I've scoured quotes and sites and books and I am not finding much on "high slaves."  I did find the quote that stated....

high-caste girl a slave who was of high-caste prior to her enslavement Book 7: Captive of Gor page 89

I interpret that to me, a Free Woman of high caste that has been enslaved would be considered a high caste girl=high slave.  I have seen other quotes that mention High Slaves, but do any of you have Quotes that describe exactly what a high slave is other than what I have provided here. 

There is a conception that if you belong to a High Caste owner you are automatically considered a High Slave.  I'm looking to confirm or disprove this thought.


House of Thorne
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« 01. August 2018, 18:33:47 »
No, a high caste girl is not really a status, it's more a way to point out that the kajira was a former high caste woman, as these slaves tend to reach better prices on the markets.
Although, Many former FW work in mills or as paga slut in a tavern and are harshly treated....
Having been of high caste has nothing to do with being a high slave, which is a situation granted by the slave's master. High slaves are usually owned by wealthy men, they are slave girls treated with more leniency, granted more advantages. A kind of pampered slave, not always though, a love slave. Some high slaves are more pampered than others.

Here some quotes:

"It is not unknown for free men to cultivate a high slave, hoping that she will influence her master in their behalf. She may thus enjoy a genuine measure of power, and permit herself an exercise of will and voice unusual in a lower slave, playing with the ambitions and hopes of sycophants, soliciting gifts for her favors, and so on." (Magicians)

"I gathered that she must be a high slave, and that she had a general permission to speak." (Witness)

"It had to do with, doubtless, being a captain's woman, being, I supposed, a high slave, and such. Perhaps when she was on deck she was even clothed, not set to scrubbing naked, and such.... Indeed, on deck she might even have been robed and veiled." (Guardsman)

Lucilina is the extreme example of a high slave and a very pampered one. The incredible favor she was granted angered some free men, even kajirus (the bearers of her palanquin), but as she belonged to the Polemarkos of Temos (basically, a high commander of the Cosian army), of course, no one dared to complain as she had his ear. But once abducted, her status dragstically changed:

"Her influence with the Polemarkos became well known. She had his ear. A word from her, for or against a fellow, as she pleased, could found or ruin a career. In her tents she would receive visitors, callers and petitioners. Dozens, coming to understand her power, came soon to sue for her favor. There were gifts for her, naturally. Surely that was only fitting. Her jewel boxes began to brim with precious stones. Rings were brought to her worth the ransom of a Ubar. Her cosmetic cases could boast perfumes that might have been the envy of a Ubara."
"Better chains of iron and a whip for her," I said, bitterly.
"Among these petitioners came one fellow bringing with him the promise of a gift of wine, a wine supposedly secret, the rare Falarian, a wine only rumored among collectors to exist, a wine supposedly so rare and precious that its cost might purchase a city. She, of course, would test this. She,
though only a slave, would choose to sip it." "The wine, of course," he said, "was too precious to have been brought with him, but it is in his tent. She summons her palanquin and bearers, male slaves, and is to be carried to this place. Too, in this fashion the matter may best be kept secret from her attendants. She is often carried about the Cosian camp in her closed palanquin by bearers. This excites little curiosity. In his tent she will taste the wine, demanding even that he pour it for her. It is done. She looks at him, startled. Can this wine, which seems like a cheap ka-la-na, be the rare Falarian? But in a moment she is unconscious. Arrangements have already been made with the bearers, of course. They will receive their freedom. It could have been one otherwise but this is best. They were known. Had we substituted others for them we would have increased our risks. Too, left behind they might well have been killed, absurdly enough, by the Cosians, an unnecessary and foolish waste of able men, in my opinion, whereas I now have four more grateful, loyal fellows in my ranks, any one of whom I think would willingly die for me." It is a splendid coup," I said, "to have stolen the preferred slave of the Polemarkos of Temos."


After Lucilina's abduction:

 "You have no name," he said.
"Yes, Master," she said, weakly, putting down her head again.
"What was your name?" he asked.
"Lucilina," she said.
The fellow regarded me. "Do you know the name of the high officer of the Cosian forces in the south?" he asked.
"Myron, Polemarkos of Temos, cousin to Lurius of Jad, Ubar of Cos," I said.
"And what do you think might have been the name of his preferred slave?" he asked.
"I gather it was Lucilina," I said.
"She was as greedy as she is beautiful," said the officer. "She had much freedom in the Cosian camp, given even her own quarters, in which the Polemarkos could call upon her. In these quarters, amidst her cushions and silks, surrounded by her jewel boxes, attended by female slaves assigned to her for her own use, to whom she was as absolute mistress, she held sway almost as might have a Ubara. Comfortably secure in the favor of her powerful and highborn master, esteemed and pampered, she, though only a slave, gathered power about herself."

 I regarded her. Jewels did not bedeck her. Her silks were now gone. No cosmetics now adorned her, begging to be licked and kissed from her lips. No scent of perfume now clung to her. There were smells which were perhaps those of sweat and fear. Too, she had soiled the platform. She had been beaten, doubtless a rare experience for a high slave. If she had once worn a golden, bejeweled collar it was now gone. On her neck now was a simple iron collar, hammered shut, such as might be put on the neck of any slut picked up by any soldier in a flaming city.

 We brought her to Torcadino," he said. "As you may remember, she had had my man, though she was a slave, pour wine for her."
"I remember," I said.
"Her first beating, thus," he said, "she received from him."
"Naturally," I said.
"Her next four beatings, at given intervals, she received from the four fellows who had been her bearers formerly, now free men."
"Naturally," I said.
"At times we had to caution them, and restrain them," he said, "that they not kill her."
"I understand," I said.
"She was then ready to be interrogated," he said.
"Interrogated?" I said.
"Certainly," he said. "Do you think I find this slut of any personal interest or worth?"
"I can see how some men might," I said.
"She is vain, and shallow," he said. "Are you not, my dear?"
"Yes, Master," she said.

(Regarding Lucilina, pity that Norman didn't write a book about her. Her character, with this exceptional background, could have been the subject of an interesting story... )

We could assume that former high caste FW are probably more entitled to reach this status, as they tend usually to be already familiar with affluent men and probably girls who have been trained as pleasure slaves. But the author didn't give any indication in this sense. There is of course no training for being a high slave.
ashellia resident
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« 01. August 2018, 20:45:57 »
Thank you.  These were a great help. 

House of Thorne
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« 02. August 2018, 03:39:11 »
You're welcome!

It would be great to see this role more played in SL Gor with those who play a free person more willing to react accordingly and stop treating these slave like the average one...

Although, the books speak about the reaction of FW. FW hate slave girls (it's very well documented in the books and Norman never implies there are exceptions, all the opposite) and tend to show even more hostility toward those who are particularly prized and pampered by men. In presence of a high slave, a FW could command the girl to remove her sandals for example, then humiliate and demean her. But good sense would apply. Would a FW behave this way in knowing that the high slave is owned by a well known powerful man? Uncertain... Also, would a master send his prized and pampered high slave, outside of his house, without having her escorted by one or two guards, to prevent a theft or a rape...? Unlikely...
Not to mention that it would be possible that such a slave leave her owner's house in being robed and veiled like a FW... More affluent and high ranked is the owner, more people would refrain to voice their indignation.... The man may be considered weak toward his girl, still, it could be his only weakness and be feared for the rest.. Position, power, possible combat skills...

There is definitely a potential for a lot of fun RP...
ashellia resident
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« 02. August 2018, 17:15:47 »
I read the quotes you provided and studied them, however, I see nothing that directly says a slave that belongs to a High Caste person is a High Slave.  In fact, I have found where high slaves were owned by merchants which dispels this onlineism. 

The first high slave is not mentioned until Tribesmen of Gor. (which is kinda odd since there are many slaves belonging to those of High Caste mentioned before this) The fist high slave is Vella, and who owns her when she says she is a high slave? It is Ibn Saran, the Salt Ubar, a merchant.

The next high slaves are owned by Lady Sabina. Her father is a merchant of Fortress of Saphronicus. By birth then, Lady Sabina is also of the Caste of Merchants.

Finally there are the high slaves owned by Decius Albus of Ar, trade advisor to the Ubar and evidently of the Caste of Merchants.

supporting quotes thanks to the Gorean Cave.https://www.thegoreancave.com/quotes/high.php

I wrote to Fogaban and asked his thoughts as well.  I believe he is spot on.  It does go back to the belief that a high slave is one that was previously a High Caste woman. 

"Shoulders back," I said. "Suck in your belly. Palms of your hands down on your thighs, firmly. Feel them there."

"Please, Master," sobbed a girl. "We are high slaves!"

"Many of us were once of high caste!" said another.
 Mariners of Gor     Book 30     Page 338

This would make sense to me as even the low caste could own a high slave and it not be exclusive to the high caste.

A puzzling topic indeed.


House of Thorne
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« 03. August 2018, 05:01:08 »
I never said that a high slave had to belong to a -high caste- person. I said she belonged to an affluent, wealthy man. Yes, most likely a man but it would not exclude a FW, having a slave girl who is her confident, to whom she would give a particular treatment with priviledges. Although the books tell us that FW tend not to indulge their slaves...

The slaves of lady Sabina are her sandal slaves (the term of "sandal slave" appears in the last books, it's used to name a slave girl attached to the service of a free woman). Attached to the close service of their mistress, dressed in long tunics and adorned, they are certainly considered high slaves. But we know nothing about their former caste.

Vella was a barbarian, she has never been a former high caste woman. She is one amongst many other slaves in the kasbah of Ibn Saran. She is incredibly beautiful, she won the favors of men, she tend to be the one they prefer (other girls are jealous, we discover it at the end of the book). She gained some priviledges, as a room for herselff. She may considers herself of a statut superior to the one of other girls, and by her position, be considered as a high slave. But she was a barbarian, not even a Gorean native.

In Mariners, the girls say:

"We are high slaves!"
"Many of us were once of high caste!" said another.
"Many", so, not all.

They have been brought in the ship hooded, they are not kept with other girls, amongst them, is secretly kept Talena. They have been introducted to the crew as being exceptionally beautiful. Although, nobody, save one of the narrators and Alcinoë, the girl with whom he will fall in love (who was too a former high case FW and one oh high station but is treated like a common girl on the ship), will see the face of these girls in the room where they are kept (and recognize Talena).
So, it's before all, their claim, they assume this status because they get a different and slightly better treatment (but they are far to be pampered and they are meant to be sold or gifted, no indication that they will keep this status they claim)

Because high slave is not a status that is definitely attached to the girl. It may change. A man can decide to demean a high slave and make her a low slave, if she has been displeasing, if he grew tired of her arrogance.... If the girl is sold, her new owner may decide she will be no longer a high slave (Vella, once Tarl gets her ownership in Tribesmen). And so, she loses even her authority over other slaves of the house. Lucilina, of course, no longer keeps her status. Her name is changed, for one which is almost a mockery as it sounds a lot less beautiful...

"Your silk can be taken from you," said the man in the chair.
"Please, no, Master!" she said.
"Perhaps it could be given to the Earth slave."
"No, Master, please!" said Dorna. She case me a wild glance. I saw she was genuinely frightened.
"The Earth girl might be made a high slave and you a low slave," he said.
"Please, no, Master!" she said.
Witness of Gor

So, another example that even a Barbarian girl may be made a high slave, Dorna's owner was obviously rather tired of her bitching and decided to remind her that she was, at the end, still a slave...

But as I said, a high slave will more likely be a former high caste FW (could be too formerly the daughter of a wealthy merchant), which makes sense as these women tend to be more familiar with the society of affluent men. However, it is not a required standard. And not all slaves owned by an affluent person are high slaves (else, even the cook and the pot girls in the house of such a person would be high slaves).

We could consider that a first girl is automatically a high slave... But I'm personally not sure... If a peasant own several slaves, who work in his fields, plain girls, it seems a bit difficult to consider that his first girl would be a high slave...
But Ute, in Rask of Treve's camp (Slave Girl of Gor), being the first girl of the domestic slaves with authority over them, is said to be a high slave. But well, she is obviously owned by Rask. Norman tends to be a bit confusing, sometimes...

Also, being wealthy doesn't mean that you belong to a high caste. Merchants, it is said in the books, are the wealthiest caste of Gor. Many consider themselves as being a high caste (a claim that is denied by those of high caste). In the books, you have example of high caste men who are not wealthy at all (the other narrator, in Mariners, is a poor scribe).

Ah, and about merchants, there is a common mistake in SL Gor which is to confuse merchants and artisans. Merchants are traders. They buy and sell manufactured goods, they seal commercial agreements, open trade roads, afford caravans, own companies. They may specialize in a particular trade but do not manufacture what they sell.
If a character is a perfurmer, a baker, a metal worker, a potter, a cosmetician, a jeweler,  etc, he is not a member of the merchant caste. He is an artisan and artisans have their own castes.
Even if these groups are not all specifically titled a caste in the books, they are still mentioned along with others which are. And none of them is identified as a merchant (I'm sure Forgaban could confirm that Smiley

Wealthy merchants commonly gain influence and high positions in a city, are often involved into politics. They even employ, for their service, men of high caste, such as physicians, scribes and warriors. They are highly respected. It makes sense for them to have high slaves.
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