The Nature of Master and Slave Relationship

(1/6) > >>

Shikhandi Panthar:
I have made a rough attempt to picture what is the nature of a Gorean master / slave relationship and how this works.

There are at least three different sets of relationships we could compare trying to define the Gorean mindset: vanilla, BDSM dominant / submissive (both in a masochian and a sadian perspective) and Gorean master / slave.

In the first instance (vanilla), the relationship is based on compromises: both go one way or another in life and, more specifically in their shared sexuality, trying to find out what works for both: the common ground where they can evolve and blossom. Both partners are entitled to speak up on their desires equally.

In the second case (Dom/sub), the relationship is based on limits and the lack of compromise. Dominants and submissives, contrary to the vanilla agreement, have different sets of powers, which constitutes the common ground. The submissive is the one who sets the limits of the "play ground" (i.e.: "I will do anything you ask, but I will not go in this or that direction." and in that sense, subs online should be the ones with a set of limits). The dominant, on the other hand, has the power, freely granted by the submissive, to lead and do as he likes within the set boundaries. Both can then explore the width of possibilities offered to them, according to the whims of the dominant. More often than not, the limits, however, are not set in stone: both must discover them as they go. It is the right of the submissive to speak up when she discovers that a limit has been reached; it is the responsibility of the dominant to keep the submissive safe, pushing to the limits without trespassing them. This kind of relationship is based on consent and a tacit or explicit contract between both parts, such as described in Sacher-Masoch (see: "Venus In Furs", for instance).

The Gorean master / slave relationship is somewhat of a different nature. Whereas in regular BDSM, the submissive sets her limits, the Gorean slave is chattel, has no limits and is not asked for her consent: she has transferred all freedom and power to her owner and is at the mercy of his desires. Considering this perspective, slave players online should indeed have no limits whatsoever. But what I have noticed is that Gorean characters are, more often than not, stirred under the hood by BDSM standards of agreement and consent.

The Marquis de Sade described such a non consent-based arrangement: the victim is subject in all things to her captor's whims. But what characterizes sadian relationships is that the master or captor is driven by an insatiable will of power and a belief that, in a decaying world, only vice and cruelty lead to satisfaction and some sort of pleasure. And the captive is usable and disposable against her will (see, for instance: "Justine, or Good Conduct Well Chastised").

In the Gorean saga, the master / slave relationship is far from being a sadian one however: the master considers his slave as valuable property, and he tries hard to keep her fit and wanting, that is: he turns on the desire for him within her. This is, in fact, the root of true slavery. In a way, then, the gorean master has a more difficult job than the BDSM dominant: slaves having no limits, it is for him to be sensible enough and feel where he must put a stop to his desire. His actions are driven by honor and virtue (etymologically: "manlyhood"), whereas the sadian libertine is driven by debauchery and vice. This, for me, is the true meaning of mastering: knowing how far one can go, and master HIS OWN desire for the good of the beast he is responsible of.

This is a rather quick and conceptual way of putting things. I would love to have your opinion on this, as lifestylers or as players. Thanks. :)

treasure goldlust:
I very much enjoyed reading your perspective on this subject and to most I would say that I agree though would throw a bit in.

On the subject about Gorean Master having a more difficult job than a BDSM Master.  I suppose I don't agree with that.  Yes, in a BDSM relationship there are those desires of debauchery, however, the sadist has to also curb his desires in the fact that what goes on between the two is SSC, Safe Sane and Consensual.  For many in the BDSM world, the sadism/masochism is a shared desire.  Just another form of sharing that exchange of power.  I have known many who have had that no limit relationship, such as what you see or feel you should see in Gor.  But it still comes down to self control.  When is to much to much.  I have pushed them over the edge so they can fly.  Do I now push them further so they can sink?  I would hope not. So for me, I think many do not get the BDSM relationships.  They scoff at the thought, 'oh look at them, they are those sick people that thrive on beating one another.'  Which in some cases is true but in most that I know of, those that "truly" live a lifestyle of exchange, its not the case.  A Master no matter in which realm, be it GOR or BDSM still has to be driven by honor. 

Your statement you wrote, "he true meaning of mastering: knowing how far one can go, and master HIS OWN desire for the good of the beast he is responsible of", is pretty spot on for both worlds in my opinion.

One other thing you wrote was that a slave in Gor has no limits and a submissive in a D/s relationship sets her limits.  This is true, in Gor, a slave really should not have any limits such as the D/s submissive.  There are M/s relationships all over the place that claim to have no limits but the fact of the matter is, even in Gor, where girls or boys for that matter say they have no limits, most do.  It is much to easy to red 'x' out when things get going tough.  I have seen very few play that will accept the game for what it is, ROLEPLAY.  Those are the few that get, you are not actually going to hurt me.  But there are triggers for some that even in RP they can not get past. 

Anyways, just my 2 cents and prob not worth that much.  Have a fabulous day ya'll!

Zardoz Greycloak:
But according to "Imaginative Sex", John Norman non-fiction book, all this is happening only in fantasy and as roleplay scenario, with target to produce or fire up vanilla love between married couple which is on cold terms recently or from beginnings.

Jayde Harsley:
Quote from: Shikhandi Panthar on 22. January 2011, 14:15:08

I have made a rough attempt to picture what is the nature of a Gorean master / slave relationship and how this works.

There are at least three different sets of relationships we could compare trying to define the Gorean mindset: vanilla, BDSM dominant / submissive (both in a masochian and a sadian perspective) and Gorean master / slave.

In the first instance (vanilla), the relationship is based on compromises: both go one way or another in life and, more specifically in their shared sexuality, trying to find out what works for both: the common ground where they can evolve and blossom. Both partners are entitled to speak up on their desires equally.

In the second case (Dom/sub), the relationship is based on limits and the lack of compromise. Dominants and submissives, contrary to the vanilla agreement, have different sets of powers, which constitutes the common ground. The submissive is the one who sets the limits of the "play ground" (i.e.: "I will do anything you ask, but I will not go in this or that direction." and in that sense, subs online should be the ones with a set of limits). The dominant, on the other hand, has the power, freely granted by the submissive, to lead and do as he likes within the set boundaries. Both can then explore the width of possibilities offered to them, according to the whims of the dominant. More often than not, the limits, however, are not set in stone: both must discover them as they go. It is the right of the submissive to speak up when she discovers that a limit has been reached; it is the responsibility of the dominant to keep the submissive safe, pushing to the limits without trespassing them. This kind of relationship is based on consent and a tacit or explicit contract between both parts, such as described in Sacher-Masoch (see: "Venus In Furs", for instance).

The Gorean master / slave relationship is somewhat of a different nature. Whereas in regular BDSM, the submissive sets her limits, the Gorean slave is chattel, has no limits and is not asked for her consent: she has transferred all freedom and power to her owner and is at the mercy of his desires. Considering this perspective, slave players online should indeed have no limits whatsoever. But what I have noticed is that Gorean characters are, more often than not, stirred under the hood by BDSM standards of agreement and consent.

The Marquis de Sade described such a non consent-based arrangement: the victim is subject in all things to her captor's whims. But what characterizes sadian relationships is that the master or captor is driven by an insatiable will of power and a belief that, in a decaying world, only vice and cruelty lead to satisfaction and some sort of pleasure. And the captive is usable and disposable against her will (see, for instance: "Justine, or Good Conduct Well Chastised").

In the Gorean saga, the master / slave relationship is far from being a sadian one however: the master considers his slave as valuable property, and he tries hard to keep her fit and wanting, that is: he turns on the desire for him within her. This is, in fact, the root of true slavery. In a way, then, the gorean master has a more difficult job than the BDSM dominant: slaves having no limits, it is for him to be sensible enough and feel where he must put a stop to his desire. His actions are driven by honor and virtue (etymologically: "manlyhood"), whereas the sadian libertine is driven by debauchery and vice. This, for me, is the true meaning of mastering: knowing how far one can go, and master HIS OWN desire for the good of the beast he is responsible of.

This is a rather quick and conceptual way of putting things. I would love to have your opinion on this, as lifestylers or as players. Thanks. :)


THANK YOU!  This is a nice overview ... and I have LOTS to add/share/discuss when time allows.  In short, you are on-point.  Now, I will run off and compose my thoughts!  xxoo  :-*

treasure goldlust:
Quote from: Zardoz Greycloak on 28. January 2011, 13:30:36

But according to "Imaginative Sex", John Norman non-fiction book, all this is happening only in fantasy and as roleplay scenario, with target to produce or fire up vanilla love between married couple which is on cold terms recently or from beginnings.


Considering Imaginative Sex was written back in 1974 before other books were even published on subjects such as this, roleplay and fantasy were a good start. BDSM was not a mainstream function when it started in the Old Leather communities and was hidden.  Only if you knew someone were you even considered to be let in to the "club".  During the later 70's, this was pretty much still the case.  It was only with the explosion of internet and chat rooms did the craziness for something people call "the lifestyle" come about and it was as if a circus started and everyone is now invited.

As far as the fantasy and roleplay that he wrote about, he aspired for people to step out of their norm.  To find something that could bring more excitement to the mudane and dreadful every day existance they were facing.  To dare to be a little different and save something that was actually worth saving.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page