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Author Topic: What do you want from a Slaver?  (Read 13926 times)
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leia36
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« 26. January 2015, 08:18:04 »
An answer from this year to the old question. Ok, not only to this question but it is correct for this one too:

http://www.gor-sl.com/index.php/topic,14589.msg131650.html#msg131650

It is my second time in SL. I played a slaver one year at the end of my first time and again after I returned to SL in 2013 till now. And I reached the point that I think I will never again play that role.

I quoted this from the post you quoted:

Answer to: Why have inaccuracies become accepted in SL-Gor?

Some ask why slavers do not teach BTB correctness. Well, I tried..tried often...but if slaveplayers do not accept it and none of them has been reading only one of the books you have a problem. The ignore parts of the teaching...after they left the kennel. They do not want to play chores, they say they want a harsh slaver...grin...oh they say..but if you play the role really as shown in the books you have short after a empty kennel. Really BTB RP does not work with most coming these days to sims.

Most think a slaver furs all slaves in his kennel. So ridiculous. And a lot slaveplayers come only for that. The moment you start teaching them real slave RP...they leave short after the kennel and later you can find them as slaves on other sims. There they play a private slave that was never really trained. The next time a slaves greets me with "tal" I will will kick her to the other side of the sim. Especially if that slave tells me she is trained and experienced OOC.

First, you need to separate IC and OOC. A slaver in SL gor is a fictional role, no more. You are expected to build up stories, not teaching "BTB correctness". If a slave player doesn't know her role, you can just refuse to play with her as any player can refuse to play with you if he doesn't enjoy your RP.

Read Assassins, you have a good example of how slaves are trained in books.

A Rper has the right to not RP chores. It's just boring mundane stuff. Try it, write paragraphs about your character cooking, cleaning etc in describing the details, and tell me if you enjoyed yourself. I am not seeing that a slave doesn't perform chores. But the slave can be considered having done them, exactly as you consider that your own character pees and poops every day. Your character can give a chore to a slave, but the player has no obligation to bother with RPing that. It can be just FTB, then, then, the consequences RPed, the slaver checking with the slaver whose typist will emote about the details that he should notice. RP is about interactions between people and collaboration. Do not forget, only the character is a slave, the typist is your equal. Norman doesn't write paragraphs of his characters performing chores, he focus on their interactions. When I cleaned my house, I don't log in SL to describe how I will clean the floor of a kennel room.

Second, "to fur" is an fucking ONLINEISM! When I see slaver players pretend to teach slave players, pretend to teach them their roles while themselves use onlineisms, I can't help myself but just rant!

And I would be curious to know what is your issue with a slave character using "tal" to greet your character....

I agree with what you say concerning Assassins, I think it is a very interesting view into a slavers house and the activities therein.

What I don't agree with is this belligerent attitude concerning using the word 'tal' to greet someone whoever they are. Tal is a form of greeting in SL Gor that is universally acceptable. However of late, a small number of people in SL Gor seem to be waging an extremely spiteful campaign against the use of the word, even 'greetings' raising the ire of a handful of people in various groups.

Its the vehement and often over the top reaction to this that I fail to understand. Its almost on a par with publishing a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed in certain circles, it is a sure fire way to garner a reaction from a few of the fundamentalist reactionaries of SL Gor RP. ... Quite amusing really.
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Caranda Schreiner
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« 26. January 2015, 08:29:28 »
And I would be curious to know what is your issue with a slave character using "tal" to greet your character....

Is this really still an issue with some people?  I thought the onlineism that Tal is not used as a greeting by and to slaves was killed off about 5 years ago.
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Aahana
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« 26. January 2015, 08:39:30 »
An answer from this year to the old question. Ok, not only to this question but it is correct for this one too:

http://www.gor-sl.com/index.php/topic,14589.msg131650.html#msg131650

It is my second time in SL. I played a slaver one year at the end of my first time and again after I returned to SL in 2013 till now. And I reached the point that I think I will never again play that role.

I quoted this from the post you quoted:

Answer to: Why have inaccuracies become accepted in SL-Gor?

Some ask why slavers do not teach BTB correctness. Well, I tried..tried often...but if slaveplayers do not accept it and none of them has been reading only one of the books you have a problem. The ignore parts of the teaching...after they left the kennel. They do not want to play chores, they say they want a harsh slaver...grin...oh they say..but if you play the role really as shown in the books you have short after a empty kennel. Really BTB RP does not work with most coming these days to sims.

Most think a slaver furs all slaves in his kennel. So ridiculous. And a lot slaveplayers come only for that. The moment you start teaching them real slave RP...they leave short after the kennel and later you can find them as slaves on other sims. There they play a private slave that was never really trained. The next time a slaves greets me with "tal" I will will kick her to the other side of the sim. Especially if that slave tells me she is trained and experienced OOC.

First, you need to separate IC and OOC. A slaver in SL gor is a fictional role, no more. You are expected to build up stories, not teaching "BTB correctness". If a slave player doesn't know her role, you can just refuse to play with her as any player can refuse to play with you if he doesn't enjoy your RP.

Read Assassins, you have a good example of how slaves are trained in books.

A Rper has the right to not RP chores. It's just boring mundane stuff. Try it, write paragraphs about your character cooking, cleaning etc in describing the details, and tell me if you enjoyed yourself. I am not seeing that a slave doesn't perform chores. But the slave can be considered having done them, exactly as you consider that your own character pees and poops every day. Your character can give a chore to a slave, but the player has no obligation to bother with RPing that. It can be just FTB, then, then, the consequences RPed, the slaver checking with the slaver whose typist will emote about the details that he should notice. RP is about interactions between people and collaboration. Do not forget, only the character is a slave, the typist is your equal. Norman doesn't write paragraphs of his characters performing chores, he focus on their interactions. When I cleaned my house, I don't log in SL to describe how I will clean the floor of a kennel room.

Second, "to fur" is an fucking ONLINEISM! When I see slaver players pretend to teach slave players, pretend to teach them their roles while themselves use onlineisms, I can't help myself but just rant!

And I would be curious to know what is your issue with a slave character using "tal" to greet your character....

I agree with what you say concerning Assassins, I think it is a very interesting view into a slavers house and the activities therein.

What I don't agree with is this belligerent attitude concerning using the word 'tal' to greet someone whoever they are. Tal is a form of greeting in SL Gor that is universally acceptable. However of late, a small number of people in SL Gor seem to be waging an extremely spiteful campaign against the use of the word, even 'greetings' raising the ire of a handful of people in various groups.

Its the vehement and often over the top reaction to this that I fail to understand. Its almost on a par with publishing a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed in certain circles, it is a sure fire way to garner a reaction from a few of the fundamentalist reactionaries of SL Gor RP. ... Quite amusing really.

About what are you speaking? I have heard nothing about a campaign against the use of "tal" or "greetings", they are both usual IC salutations in a Gorean environment. I would find rather weird to meet a character greeting mine with a "hello" in RP....

@ Caranda: Obviously, Roughplay Resident had an issue with slaves greetings with "tal".... Here his post: http://www.gor-sl.com/index.php/topic,14589.msg131650.html#msg131650
« Last Edit: 26. January 2015, 08:45:38 by Aahana » Logged
leia36
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« 26. January 2015, 09:33:58 »
I was referring to its use in group chat mainly and my comments were not directed specifically at you.
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Watchmy Tracer
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« 26. January 2015, 10:48:28 »
A bit late in on this but what do i want from a Slaver?
 
1. Promotion of the slave's existing storyline or help in creating one for new players, NOT taking an existing player and completely fucking their storyline beyond recognition by their actions or omissions. A guide, not a dictator.

2. Separation. Theyre not personal stock.
 
3. For good slavers to bring on the ones that need bringing on. Maybe in sim Apprenticeships for slavers to better their own game. Maybe slave groups can identify those who can lead for such things and give guidance to wanna be slavers.. dont know.
 
4. Continuity. Slavers come and go like the winds, it's a hard role to play, sticking at it benefits all.
 
I have a very good slaver, she is much valued and does 1,2 and hopefully 4, very well.
« Last Edit: 26. January 2015, 10:50:34 by Watchmy Tracer » Logged
Aahana
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« 26. January 2015, 11:12:48 »
I was referring to its use in group chat mainly and my comments were not directed specifically at you.

You should follow the discussion, actually. We were talking about role play and IC situations, not about those people who open a group chat and say "Tal and greetings", letting people suspect they didn't understand that it's "tal" OR "greetings", not both (when in role play, in OOC, anyway, it would make sense to speak English, with greetings/hello/hi/hey....)
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« 26. January 2015, 19:34:57 »
And I would be curious to know what is your issue with a slave character using "tal" to greet your character....

Is this really still an issue with some people?  I thought the onlineism that Tal is not used as a greeting by and to slaves was killed off about 5 years ago.
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« 09. April 2015, 09:56:53 »
The last days I had some talks about the role of slavers in SL. Many sims are without, they can not find one. I talked with some simowners I know about it and they said that there are mostly slavers that thought to be a slaver is mostly use slaves on fur. So they never really RPed the role. No slavetraining, no Caste RP, nothing else. Frustrating for slaveplayers.

On the other side we have frustrated slavers too. Think about the "princess" slaves that all time said no ooc to what ever they should do. I remember a slave that said to me "No, I will not do any chores.". I asked her why. She said "I am here to find a master not doing slavetraining or chores.". I said: "What you think is the role of a gorean slave about?" She said "I will love my master. That is what it is for me." Are there more thinking like that? Yes.

Then we have experienced slaves coming to a kennel as new slaves telling all time that they know better how a slave should be trained and disturb the RP there.

And then there are slaves that play on more sims. This because they have more time to RP and on one sim there is not enough RP for them. Tell me how many slavers like it that the slaves wear 3-5 different collars and sometimes forget to change them...

So what we want from a slaver is a good question. Some sims like him to be a sockpuppet to do exactly what is in the sims rules and what the simowners say. Not often a slaver is a free merchant with his own slaverhouse like it should be. Citykennels reduce the role a lot.

If you play it BTB you are too harsh. If you play it SL BTB for a lot you are too nice. What ever you do, there are 50% slaves that want it different. And leaving slaves cause trouble with the simowner. So the role is not easy if one want more as to have the slaves on fur.
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« 09. April 2015, 15:28:14 »
I'd want a slaver to weed out the RPers that are looking for really harsh Gor RP from the rest by simply RPing the role the way it's supposed to be done, Let the people who want tea party Gor go some where else.
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« 09. April 2015, 16:16:12 »
There is then often a problem with simowners..they want the slaves stay not leave. But some slaves make a real slaver RP impossible. (And a real slave RP too...to be correct)
« Last Edit: 09. April 2015, 16:16:58 by roughplay resident » Logged
Aahana
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« 09. April 2015, 20:03:39 »
I want a slaver able to write intrigues, stories, not to focus on the usual non BTB slave training made of steps, requirements, OOC evaluations etc. I want a guy who can RP. I want a guy who won't consider that his role is to teach noobs to Gor who start rping as a slave. I want a slaver who won't control the RP of those rping a slave, who won't dictate how they must RP, who will consider that slave rpers are RP partners with whom he can write and RP good stories and OOC equal of him. He must be able to separate IC and OOC.

No OOC teaching, NC can be given, for people use them as a reminder in their RP. But these quotes should cover many aspects of the role, not just the litanies (which are not slave paces).

I wish a slaver, when acquiring a new slave, capable to put her through the paces (the BTB ones):

Quote
"Stand!" said the merchant. "Head back! Hands behind head! Bend backwards! Farther! Farther!" He turned to us. "Acceptable," he said. Then to the girl he issued orders, rapidly, harshly. I watched, with interest, as the girl, tears in her eyes, responded to his swiftly issued, abrupt commands. For more than four Ehn he put her through a swift, staccato regimen of movement, a set of slave paces, assessment paces, designed to exhibit, vulnerably, decisively and publicly, her beauty, in all of it major attitudes and positions. "Hands on hips! Be insolent! Hands behind back! Hands crossed before you, as though bound! Hands at throat, as though chained to collar, fingers before mouth! Fall to the floor! Kneel! Head down! Head up! Bend backwards! Farther! Roll to the floor, on your side, on your back, right leg high, now flexed, left leg high, now flexed, to your side, right leg extended, palms on floor, left leg extended, palms on floor! Appear angry! Appear frightened! Appear aroused! Smile!" He did this with the same swift, expert objectivity, and clinical detachment, that physician might bring to a routine medical examination; this examination, of course, was a beauty examination, assessing the desirability of a female slave.
Tribesmen of Gor

I want a guy who will stop ranting about princess slaves because it's an OOC insult. When I see a FM or FW with limits like no collar, no force collar, no enslavement, no brand, etc, seriously, who is the fucking princess?

If a slave RPer doesn't understand the role and confuse with BDSM sub, it doesn't make her a princess, it makes her a bad role player who doesn't know the role and its requirements. Period.

I want a slaver who will not impose chores OOCly because it's boring. When in RL you spent two hours cleaning your house, do you really want to spent 1 hour filling a notecard of how you scrub a floor in SL Gor?
 I want a slaver who will accept that chores can be FTB, part of the background, that a girl can begin a scene in emoting that she performed chores for 8 hours and is enjoying her free time.

A slaver is a merchant, he should focus on this part too. A sale should be properly RP, and immediate, without this idiocy of tagging the slave to buy her 15 days later blah blah. And anyone could buy a slave, sim member or not.

The slaver should name a slave trainer, one with authority, creativity, knowing perfectly the role and able to teach like the slave trainers in books (think of Sura...).

I want a slaver who will accept IC dramas, conflicts, rivalries as fun RP. In books, slaves were rivals, were jealous, could be petty. A slaver should even encourage these behaviors as rivalries encourage slaves to reach excellence.

I want a slaver who will make clear, OOC, that the kennels are not a match place but a RP place and that slave rpers don't join to find the OOC master of their dreams.

I want a slaver who will not bother with NC sale contracts, slave papers etc. All this stuff can be RPed, emoted briefly while a scene, and so, save time for his role play. Having to deal with tons of notecards is an OOC chore.

I want a slaver RPer able to tell the sim owner that it's the RP he wants and if disagreement, he will just leave the sim. There is no reason for a slaver to bother with noobs who only want to find a master, need to learn the role from A to B and can't find their RP by themselves because the sim owner expect traffic in filling the kennels with lame RPers. Those people should be ignored.
 
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ashellia resident
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« 18. April 2017, 22:08:16 »
Tal Everyone,

This is my first post to the forum, but not my first rodeo in Gor or as a slaver.  I am the Head Slaver for the House of Thorne (my slave house) in the city of Svago.  I am in a city where there are four slave houses, each individually owned and operated.  That being said, you will find a mixture of styles and fundamentals which drive a particular house. 

In reading the topic of this discussion, to be honest, it flipped around for me and I thought--What does a slaver want?  Now hear me out and don't get all ruffled and huffed at my statement until you read on.

Being a slaver is often the most thankless jobs in all of Gor.  As a slaver you wear many hats, if you do the job to the fullest.  You are not just a slaver of the merchant caste, but you are a counselor, physician, mentor, teacher, disciplinarian, shoulder to cry on, referee, defender, protector, drama-sorter, and the most important part to me--a relationship builder.

For me:
A successful slave house is one that forges relationships with the slaves that are within it.--This is what they want from a Slaver.
Slaves want someone who is present, engaged, and interested in them, not just slap a collar on them and say ok--go serve.
Slaves want someone who values them in their role in Gor and doesn't use the slave house as their personal harem.
Slaves want someone who knows Gor. 
Slaves want someone who has their system down to a well-defined efficient machine. For example: intakes
Slaves want someone who has their best interest in mind, whether in the end it's what they want to happen or not.
Slaves want someone who will let them write their own story and not force them into a mold.  It's their story to write, not ours to dictate.  So what, if they aren't perfect--good for them.

But for the flip side--What do slavers want?  Me--I want
Slaves that are not here for intake today, and never come back.--Dedicated and loyal slaves
Slaves that are willing to take responsibility and accept consequences when they act out or do wrong.
Slaves that are present and engaged.
Slaves that are communicators--relationships--talking, sharing concerns, and helping guide them to be where they want to be.  It's their SL, their story.
Slaves that are wanting to learn and grow.
Slaves that don't sit, do nothing and whine.


Bottom line for me, like I said, it's relational.  Establish your relationships with boundaries and limits and be consistent with them.  Don't play favorites, and understand that behind the screen these folks have real lives with real issues.  They are slaves, and there is a reason that slavery is a pillar of Gor.  It doesn't mean they are worthless in Gorean society, but it also means they should not be coddled for it.

Just my two tarsk bits.

Ashellia Thorne
"Ash"
City of Svago
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« 19. April 2017, 05:13:19 »
Welcome to the Forms Ashellia.  I enjoyed reading your post.  I look forward to more post from you.  I might have to visit you IC one day.  I have not role-played with a slaver in awhile... well I could never find one.  Perhaps you might can help me secure a slave. But I will keep that for when I visit you IC.
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« 19. April 2017, 14:49:08 »
Thank you so much for the welcome, and for the nice things you said about my post.  I do tend to get a bit wordy and chattery--but then that's me!  I would enjoy very much hosting you for a stay in Svago.  Find me and let me know you're coming and I'll meet you at the dock.

Ash
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« 21. April 2017, 02:25:46 »

Ok, know that I don't mean to offend you, Ashelia, but I have a few issues with your post.

Personally, as an experienced role-player myself (familiar with all the details of the RP etiquette, having been a sim owner, moderator sim admin quite a few times in my time in SL Gor (over 10 years), having mostly played a FW for years, now, a slave girl (FW forced collared), I would love to have a story with a slaver player (or slave trainer, whip master) who will only stays IC, in character and play his role the way it's described in the books.
I don't want a slaver player who will mix IC and OOC, consider that slave players are real subs, mostly Gor noobs and are in need for mentorship and OOC support, must be protected against potential OOC threats, OOCly taken care of, etc etc. No, we are players, all equal and adults. I can take care fo myself and I know the books well enough (all 34 read) not to be taught how I should RP my character.

I want a slaver player who will have the good sense to tell slave players: If you know nothing to Gor, here a few resources (websites. link to buy books etc). come read, familiarize yourself with the environment, create a character with a background, then, when you will be confortable with the role, come play with me and my RP partners.

Behind the slaver character, I want a typist who will consider other players, free or slaves, like role-play partners, all involved in a collaborative game.

I don't want an intake process the way they are done in SL Gor. In the books, when a slaver buys a slave girl, he appraises her (or his employees, of course a female slaver will never appraise a slave girl, potentially future pleasure slave), he makes her perform some slave paces to get an idea of her potential, her sensuality, he touches her with the whip, then, she is given to is employees, sent to the kennels and her training will start.

The last slaver player with whom I chatted, told my character that the intake would be IC to check my knowledges fo Gor... Alloooooo? My character is an adult native Gorean woman! And he was telling me that I would have to answer a few questions about Gor, such as castes, names of drinks, fruits, veggies.....! In character! Am I the only one who find that it doesn't make any sense at all? Do you imagine in real word, being asked what is a tomato, a beer, a cow, etc?

I don't want to waste my time in doing a slave exam, at least, the way it's done in SL Gor. You get a -boring- scene with a physician who just follow a RP in order to file a notecard. Zero creativity. Screw notecards, be creative, create stories, stop wasting your RP time at filling a NC. Oftemn, anyway, the slave player won't stay and you will have filled this NC for nothing.

Stop sending the slaves your character owns serve in the city. They are private properties, slaves you want to sell. And you offer their services to the local tavern master, the inn the bakery, greet visitors, etc ? Where in the books do you see that? All private businesses own their slves. If the tavern master doesn't have a paga girl, his responsibility to recruit a player for the job. In the ideal, the slave players should find most of their interactions in the slave house. When they are allowed to get outside, they should have a guard with them (or NPC one).

Also, no training which looks like homework, quest,with challenges, RP which must be notecarded

Why is it so hard in SL Gor, for a slaver player, to play this role the way it's described in books such as Assassins, Tribesmen, Kajira, Mercenaries....?

Also, my partner, when we were trying to extend our storyline with more people, had written this ad:  https://i.gyazo.com/60330a2a92f03da66cdc371328f43321.png

A friend was interested (either as slave trainer or slaver with her male avatar), but she got RL issues. And we never found any other opportunity which filled our standards. But see, basically, it was the kind of slaver / slaver house we were looking for, our ideal.

And please, stop wanting slaves... Start wanting dedicated role-players for the role of slaves with whom you will write -collaborative- stories... I don't need to learn and grow... And many other slave players are like me. We are role players. We want to have fun, to express our creativity, to challenge our creativity. Our OOC motivations, our OOC concerns are our own business and concerns, we should not be expected to share them unline we become buddies and we should not expect neither that a slaver player cares for our OOC feelings. Interact with our characters, in OOC, remember, there is no longer a slave, but a role player, an adult.

Because your paragraph about "what slavers want" sounds exactly as if you were addressing real slaves and even, children... A role player doesn't have to be loyal, a role player owes you nothing and you owe nothing to other role-players. You can only expect dedication because guess what? Each of us comes to SL Gor for their own fun, not your (of course, it's a fun we want to share with other people, it's the purpose of role play). We are role players, nothing else. At least, in labelled -role-play sims". I'm aware that this principle stops applying in lifestyle sims.

« Last Edit: 22. April 2017, 23:41:28 by Nakshydil » Logged
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