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Author Topic: Arterial Bleed Times - aka where to stick your knife  (Read 20272 times)
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Taog Ra
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« 19. August 2011, 14:17:03 »
These are approximations and 'bleed times' will vary on factors such as heart rate of the victim, etc. etc.

Carotid Artery: Approx 2-20 minutes.

Jugular Vein: Approx 15-60 minutes.

Subclavian Artery: Approx 2-20 minutes.  Difficult to hit but nearly impossible to recover from because the Subclavian is protected by the clavicle and the first rib (sandwiched between them).  Short of having a member of the physician's caste doing field surgery on the spot, they're not gonna make it.  This is the trademark strike that was used by Bradd Pitt playing Achilles in the movie Troy.

Subclavian Vein:
Approx 15-60 minutes

The Brachial Artery:
5-60 minutes. Located on the upper arm and protected by the bicep muscle.  It's what they use to measure your BP with a pressure cuff in the doctor's office.

Femoral Artery:
5-60 minutes.  Bleeding out from a femoral artery wound can occur in seconds and may be encountered more often due to increased use of body armor on the torso.

Axillary Artery:
5-60 minutes.  Accessible via the armpit and front of the shoulder joint.  Feeds the brachial artery.  Difficult to hit but an upward slash or stab can be guided into the artery by armor worn.  Extremely difficult to treat this wound, even with direct pressure.

Inguinal Artery:
5-60 minutes.  The inguinal arteries feed the Femoral arteries and can be effective against a heavily armored opponent by striking upwards between the legs into the 'crotch'.  A blade will be guided up over armored plates on the inner thigh to cut into the soft tissues that cannot be covered with armor.  Extremely difficult to treat with applying pressure.  Made famous in a scene of the movie Blackhawk Down.

Aorta or any part of the heart:
Approx 1-2 minutes.

Two other areas of note also include:

Popliteal Artery:
Located behind the knee, would be similar (but slightly less effective) to cutting the femoral artery but easy to treat with pressure.

Inferior Vena Cava
Approx 15-60 minutes. Can be attacked via a deep abdominal stab using the short sword (gladius), similar to cutting the Jugular vein

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Husam Darkfire
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« 19. August 2011, 15:46:49 »
It's my understanding that completly severing an artery will prolong the bleed out as the artery will attempt to constrict reducing the blood loss rate. Thats why its best to cut the artery lengthwise if possible. Which would be viable in a more controlled environment not normally found in a attack/combat situation.
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Taog Ra
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« 20. August 2011, 04:48:03 »
It's my understanding that completly severing an artery will prolong the bleed out as the artery will attempt to constrict reducing the blood loss rate. Thats why its best to cut the artery lengthwise if possible. Which would be viable in a more controlled environment not normally found in a attack/combat situation.

Very true, which is why most attempts at suicide by cutting the wrists fail.. unless they cut along the arterial sheath and into the veinous cavity.  Up, not across.
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Razius
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Hith (a.k.a. Hemaca)


« 30. August 2011, 12:23:42 »
For those with interest in this area, here are a few diagrams showing the various vascular systems described. This is Part 1 of 4.



* KillingAortaIliacFemoralPoplitealArteries.jpg (15.54 KB, 249x382 - viewed 693 times.)

* KillingAortaoranypartoftheheart.jpg (63.36 KB, 640x463 - viewed 316 times.)

* KillingArteriesoftheShoulderandArm.jpg (37.76 KB, 638x476 - viewed 571 times.)

* KillingAxillaryArtery.jpg (19.02 KB, 329x401 - viewed 297 times.)
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Razius
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Hith (a.k.a. Hemaca)


« 30. August 2011, 12:25:27 »
Part 2 of 4


* KillingBrachialArtery.jpg (86.59 KB, 455x896 - viewed 354 times.)

* KillingCarotidArtery.jpg (18.2 KB, 396x295 - viewed 311 times.)

* KillingCTScanofNeckArteries.jpg (13.16 KB, 297x301 - viewed 242 times.)

* KillingFemoralArtery.jpg (18.03 KB, 228x403 - viewed 299 times.)
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His pale green eyes look blank and pitiless as Tor-tu-Gor. Shadows of the reeling tarns merge into his own darkness. What rough beast Hemaca, the ahn come round at last, slouching towards your Home Stone, towards the bourn; an engraved dagger worn, to augur your arrival in the Undiscovered Country.
Razius
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Hith (a.k.a. Hemaca)


« 30. August 2011, 12:27:07 »
Part 3 of 4


* KillingFemoralArteryFemoralVein.jpg (27.11 KB, 450x543 - viewed 341 times.)

* KillingInferiorVenaCava.jpg (49.05 KB, 624x456 - viewed 277 times.)

* KillingInguinalTriangle.jpg (72.78 KB, 960x720 - viewed 377 times.)

* KillingJugularVeinSubclavianArteryVein.jpg (50.81 KB, 539x493 - viewed 305 times.)
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His pale green eyes look blank and pitiless as Tor-tu-Gor. Shadows of the reeling tarns merge into his own darkness. What rough beast Hemaca, the ahn come round at last, slouching towards your Home Stone, towards the bourn; an engraved dagger worn, to augur your arrival in the Undiscovered Country.
Razius
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Hith (a.k.a. Hemaca)


« 30. August 2011, 12:28:13 »
Part 4 of 4


* KillingSubclavianArtery.jpg (76.84 KB, 589x504 - viewed 271 times.)

* KillingVascularSystem.jpg (35.85 KB, 397x388 - viewed 351 times.)
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His pale green eyes look blank and pitiless as Tor-tu-Gor. Shadows of the reeling tarns merge into his own darkness. What rough beast Hemaca, the ahn come round at last, slouching towards your Home Stone, towards the bourn; an engraved dagger worn, to augur your arrival in the Undiscovered Country.
Taog Ra
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« 05. September 2011, 06:01:08 »
@Razius -- awesome add with the visuals.  Thank you muchly!
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Xaz Elephas
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« 05. September 2011, 06:39:08 »
Setting this as a sticky. Very good info to help make those kill emotes.
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« 05. September 2011, 09:22:13 »
Is fascinated..
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Poisonous Adored
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« 05. September 2011, 10:28:09 »
What is the purpose of this post, exactly? I dont see well for an assassin, the interest to know the "bleed time"....

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Taog Ra
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« 05. September 2011, 10:57:19 »
I would have thought the 'purpose' was obvious?  Call it a 'caste secret' of the BC if you care to, but any of the physician's caste worth their salt would have a similar understanding of how the body works and how to treat injuries to these 'vital' areas.  For an assassin, understanding how the body works to make each of their attacks much more effective and efficient is a critical skill.

Quote
"The Assassin," he said, "is like a musician, a surgeon. The Warrior is like a butcher. He
is a ravaging, bloodthirsty lout."
    "There is much to what you say," I granted him. "But Assassins are such arid fellows.
Warriors are more genial, more enthusiastic."
    "An Assassin goes in and does his job, and comes out quietly," he said. "Warriors storm buildings and burn towers."
    "It is true that I would rather clean up after an Assassin than a Warrior," I said.

    ~ Chapter 35, Explorers of Gor

If you're a meter jockey and posting 3 full lines of RP is where your interest in killing someone begins and ends, then perhaps this post has no purpose.  For members of the caste, it is an intricate and integral part of what we roleplay.
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Poisonous Adored
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« 05. September 2011, 11:34:57 »
For an assassin, knowing the "bleed time" is still useless. An assassin needs to know the body parts when he will have to hit his victim, for a quick death.
Because it doesnt matter how long it takes to your body to lose all its blood when you kill. Except if assassins kill by bleeding, which is not the case.

You want to kill properly? So, cut simply the carotids. As the brain is not more supplied in blood, so, in oxygen, your victim loses conscience in 2 seconds, death happens a few seconds after the loss of conscience.
A dagger or a crossbow bolt into the heart is pretty efficient too.

Second, it's enough annoying to be killed by an assassin as usually, you dont even know who wanted your death and why, as you will be out of RP for 24 hours, well, only disagreements, so, if too, you make a remake of Jason (pretty good surgeon, in a way), using the "bleed time" knowledge for adding more details to your killing actions, remember that some people didnt join SL Gor for encountering a gorE rp.... Especially just before or after mead....

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Taog Ra
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« 05. September 2011, 13:07:28 »
For an assassin, knowing the "bleed time" is still useless.

The information here is provided as a reference to assassins and those they train, and is quite applicable and appropriate to that roleplay in that it provides alternatives to what is common and may be seen as monotonous and repetitive kill emotes.

To avoid this degrading into an debate that centers on personal preferences in roleplay, I'll simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Outside of the debate as to whether or not the information here is appropriate or 'useless'... I do want to address one thing you said:

Quote
...it's enough annoying to be killed by an assassin as usually, you dont even know who wanted your death and why, as you will be out of RP for 24 hours...

I think I've said it in previous posts... It sucks when your avi/toon/RP character gets killed.  Mine has been killed once and it was invalidated by an RP Moderator that did not get called at my request.  But I honored the 24 hour 'death' and resumed my roleplay after a near-death experience.  Great character development for my character.

It is within your personal choice to not honor valid roleplay that involves the death of your character or end your character's storyline.  That being said, I believe (my personal opinion) that anyone who claims they are a "by the book" roleplayer and then denies the relevance of the caste of assassins in their Gorean roleplay should re-evaluate that claim.  With only a few exceptions based on remote regions and where assassins likely would not waste their time (Red Hunters, Red Savages, Wagons, etc.), saying the caste of assassins has no relevance in Gor is on the same level as saying any other caste has none.

Purely a fictional number for discussion's sake, but I'd have to wager close to 90% of the contracts that are accepted by assassins in their roleplay are a result of some "injustice" that has been done.  Or to avenge a death (Second Kill).  The other 10% are for political intrigue against prominent members of an enemy city.  There are ample quotes to support the use of assassins in this regard.

If you are on the receiving end of a contract, and moreso if you're a habitual 'mark', there's likely a very valid reason in roleplay for it -- IC consequences for your IC actions.  Pardon the crude way of saying it, but if one is a constant asshole in roleplay, odds are, eventually, someone is going to put gold in the hands of a killer to put an end to them.
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Husam Darkfire
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« 05. September 2011, 14:16:41 »
For an assassin, knowing the "bleed time" is still useless. An assassin needs to know the body parts when he will have to hit his victim, for a quick death.
Because it doesnt matter how long it takes to your body to lose all its blood when you kill. Except if assassins kill by bleeding, which is not the case.

Granted this is a posting on the BC section and is primarily aimed at passing knowledge to other experienced or training BC. But there is also a lesser known caste within the wagon people that specialize in torturing. Information such as might be found in their training. Not all torture is about just inflicitng physical pain. Sometimes watching someone you care for slowly bleed out tends to encourage conversation.

So there is value in passing along this type of information for more than just the BC.
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